Maltese Falcon ... hit or miss?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Stephen Ditmore, Jun 29, 2006.

?

Maltese Falcon, hit or miss?

Poll closed Jun 29, 2007.

  1. A triumph!

    35 vote(s)
    33.7%

  2. Interesting

    58 vote(s)
    55.8%

  3. Uninteresting

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%

  4. A truly stupid concept and a complete waste of time

    7 vote(s)
    6.7%
Page 19 of 23
  1. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,321
    Likes: 214, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    So from the data supplied by Mike we have these results......

    Maltese Falcon

    Displacement/length ratio = 70.6
    Sail Area /Disp. ratio = 21.1

    Cutty Sark

    Displacement /length ratio = 213.4
    Sail Area/Disp. ratio = 18.62

    It has been suggested that the square-riggers, with their heavier displacement and lower aspect rigs, have greater sail carrying capacity which should add up to better times over long distances. But that remains to be seen, perhaps if someone developed a VPP for Cutty Sark to compare with that in this paper......

    http://www.hiswasymposium.com/assets/files/pdf/2004/Gerard%20Dijkstra.pdf
     
    Tad, Sep 16, 2011
    #271
  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maltese Falcon

    Thanks to Mike and Tad for the numbers- good to know.
     
    Doug Lord, Sep 16, 2011
    #272
  3. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 189, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Thanks for the numbers Tad. I've been busy this weekend taking part in a Classics regatta so no time for internet.

    Cutty Sark seems to trash MF by the numbers.....! :)
     
    Guillermo, Sep 19, 2011
    #273
  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I'm not so sure about that, Guillermo.

    Check:
     

    Attached Files:

    Doug Lord, Sep 19, 2011
    #274
  5. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 189, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Why not?

    On one hand, quoting Eric, for the same installed power, or sail area and wind speed, heavier boats will be slower. This is, boats with high DLRs will be slower than those with low DLRs. So CS (213.4) should be slower than MF (70.6) being other things equal.... shouldn't it?

    On the other hand (again quoting Eric), SA/D gives an indication of power versus weight—a true power-to-weight ratio—at normal sailing speeds when drag due to displacement—the full total of friction, form, and wave making drag—is significant. Again, wouldn't we expect CS (18.62) to be also slower than MF (21.1) because of this ratio.....?

    (Lwl of both ships is unknown to me, but the hull lengths are 64,74 m for the Cutty Sark and 88 m for the Maltese Falcon, so probably this last has also a longer Lwl).

    So......... ;)
     
    Guillermo, Sep 19, 2011
    #275
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    MF vs CS

    ---------------
    Well, thats what I thought-MF faster than CS, but I guess I misunderstood your meaning here. My understanding of your meaning was "Cutty Sark seems to trash(beat) MF by the numbers". Saying it as I understand it: Maltese Falcon beats Cutty Sark by the numbers.

     
    Doug Lord, Sep 19, 2011
    #276
  7. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 189, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Well, to clarify it: Cutty Sark seems to beat Maltese Falcon by the numbers.

    Angelique: Thanks for your PM. I had forgotten about Mike's post where the Lwls were clearly stated.

    Cheers.
     
    Guillermo, Sep 19, 2011
    #277
  8. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,192
    Likes: 208, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Guillermo. As you say Cutty Sark performs a lot better than MF.
     
    MikeJohns, Sep 19, 2011
    #278
  9. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 1,614
    Likes: 101, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1151
    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    AND she carried a highly-paying cargo....
     
    BATAAN, Sep 19, 2011
    #279
  10. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ======================
    Now, I really don't understand. If the numbers are better(faster) for MF then it should be faster, right? What am I missing?
     
    Doug Lord, Sep 19, 2011
    #280
  11. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,192
    Likes: 208, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Doug
    In racing parlance; CS is faster on handicap. But a very honest no frills handicap.
     
    MikeJohns, Sep 19, 2011
    #281
  12. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Gee, Mike-you'd think I'd understand dat dere racing parlance-guess I'm just
    dense. I'm still not getting it-handicap or not.....
    Are you comparing the two at the same load?
     
    Doug Lord, Sep 19, 2011
    #282
  13. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 336, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I think it's this...

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
    Angélique, Sep 19, 2011
    #283
  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =============
    Thanks, Angel-thats helpful.
     
    Doug Lord, Sep 19, 2011
    #284

  16. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 336, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thanks to you for asking those questions and to all of you for providing the knowledge :)

    This is what I just learned from Mike's quote about adjusting for the Froude number . . . .

    Please correct me if I make the wrong connections here :eek:

    Just trying to keep up which most of the time won't work but still learning some bits every time, so thanks folks [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
    Angélique, Sep 19, 2011
    #285
Page 19 of 23
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. Squidly-Diddly

    Any pics of DynaRig or Maltese Falcon stowing its sails inside mast?

    Squidly-Diddly, Dec 20, 2011, in forum: Sailboats
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    6,017
    brian eiland
    Feb 25, 2012
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.