Luderitz Speed Challenge New World Record of 54.1 knots

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by cardsinplay, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. cardsinplay
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    cardsinplay da Vinci Group


    Not trying to impose a viewpoint on anyone. It's simple truth. The following opinion brings a small smile: Kiters have far more flexibility through normal expression than do any acknowledged sailing craft afloat.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ======================
    That does it-no more questions: Ostlind is back-but why is he hiding?

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    Generally, "flexibility thru normal expression"(classic ostlindism) would mean ,perhaps, being able to relax and enjoy what you are doing-like the guys on Hydroptere, Mirabaud or the Rave. Sailing in a ditch at 60+mph hardly seems conducive to that.

    What really excites a lot of people I talk to is the concept of great comfort along with relatively high speed. And I think we'll see more boats that take advantage of trully modern design to achieve this in a way that people can really enjoy without the danger and work associated with speed under sail in the past. It is a potentially whole new area of design that is wide open right now-in part thanks to the heroic adventurer's that are breaking records.
    And in part due to many,many high performance sailors that crave the rush but have bum knees or hurt backs etc. rendering their high speed days over
    in conventional high performance sailboats.
    But it ain't over......
     

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  3. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Doug, I think what some who posted in this thread mean is that kiting is the most accessible form of sailing available right now, can be used in a variety of different ways depending on your wishes or need, and is certainly the most cost effective form of sailing.
    The three images attached to your post don`t do your "relax while going fast" objectives much justice. Mirabaud looks like it takes a high level of skill and athleticism, as well as high cost. I wouldn`t try that if you have dodgy knees or a bad back. Hydroptere, ok you can sit on the trampoline with a martini in your hand, but at a cost way past most average sailors. The rave I`ll concede, might be reasonably affordable, comfortable, but not that fast - the Hobie trifoiler makes it look decidedly slow in most youtube videos I`ve seen.
    For the average kitesurfer or windsurfer, speeds of 40knots or more are not acchievable, but they can bumble along at 25-30knots quite comfortably in moderate chop. Only a large investment in time and commitment will get you over 40knots.
    As to the original topic of this thread (Moth on foils :30.7knots) we seem to be forgetting that this is in itself an amazing acchievement. Anyone who has windsurfed / kited this fast will know how fast that actually feels over water. I, for one, am impressed. I think an accident at that speed on the moth is going to hurt a lot more than a windsurfer or kiteboard.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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    You're 100% right Steve(except that this isn't the Moth thread). My point is that all these speed demons capture the imagination with their accomplishments and I think the need for speed filters down and has created an opportunity for innovative designers to provide exciting, very fast sailboats that are exceptionally comfortable-and should that materialize- it will be a great "trickle down" for many people.
    -------
    The Rave has ben clocked at well over 30 knots and can sail in 7 knots(not on foils).
     
  5. P Flados
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    P Flados Senior Member

    I was not bashing anyone!

    I am one of the big supporters of saying that anyone that uses wind power to go the fastest on water should be the undisputed worlds fastest sailor record holder. I was just contrasting that there is also value in the separate distinction to being the worlds fastest sailboat.

    Both are HUGE achievements. Even if Sailrocket Mk II does 120 kts (3 x 40 kts at Luderitz) next year, I will still be suitably impressed if a kiter pushes their record to 60 or 70 kts the following year.

    I also understand that kiting or even windsurfing can cover quite a distance and that both can provide tremendous range of fun & excitement for those up to it. However, it is pretty obvious that there are more than a few sailing enthusiasts that have physical limitations that make these less of an option.

    My post was just contrasting that there is another side to the story. Going 200 mph is actually no big deal. I have done it many times. Happens that it was in an airliner. Going really fast in a sailboat is really all about bragging rights for being smarter, and/or having more skill than anyone else. If I go out & sail 54 kts with no one around, I will have some personal satisfaction. If I can take my nephew or a co-worker with me and show off the fact that I have built a boat that uses the wind to go super fast, the satisfaction level has just jumped more than an order of magnitude.
     
  6. Cheesy
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    Cheesy Senior Member


    To stir even more I would go as far as saying it is the most pure form of sailing through the combination of the required control/inputs to the board and kite as well as the instantaneous feedback.....
     
  7. Blue Leader
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    Blue Leader Junior Member

    Kitesailors have been the fastest sailors on earth since Sept 2008. They have always been faster than l'Hydropter!!!! Let me explain: Kites have NOT been unable to carry the Trimble GPS System like Hydroptere.....kitesailors could not physically carry the big Trimble so they were forced to sail a course between two gates with cameras. Any deviation from the straight line between the gates resulted in a massive penalty for the kites. Hydroptere's speed were measured over the course/track sailed.........a curved course did not result in a penalty. Kitesailors annihilated the outright record of Hydroptere because the course was straighter this year. The current kite equipment today still has 3 more knots in it .....easy!!! Due to space restrictions in Luderitz the start is still too square and limits starting speeds to 50 kts or slower......with a longer start area and correct wind angle the kites would be hitting the start line with speeds in excess of 55kts.....4 to 5 knots fasters!!!!. Sailing in the 4 meter wide trench in excess of 55 kts is stressfull experience..........the kitesailors would love to return and frolic in the open waters far away from the rocks and dry sand of the 2nd Lagoon.

    "You have to not listen to the nay sayers because they will be many and often they'll be much more qualified than you......."
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Trench "sailing"

    ===============
    No kidding! Lest some forget: Hydroptere is still the fastest sailboat on the planet over a nautical mile.....
     
  9. cardsinplay
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    cardsinplay da Vinci Group

    And the big raspberry for L'Hydroptere since the world does not care at all about that record. That was done for the sponsors and nothing more.

    The BIG ONE is now and shall always be, the 500 meter madness dash for all the marbles. Example: When was the last time someone muttered the name, Hicham El Guerrouj, to you in conversation? Geez, really... never? My gosh, he's the track World Record holder in the mile. How about Usain Bolt? Yeah, I thought so. He just happens to hold the World Record in the 100 meter dash. Guess which one is regarded as the fastest human alive? Is it clear, now?

    For the big foiler to come back to anything even remotely competitive, it'll take another very expensive trip to the computers, the wind tunnels and a whole new set of construction realities that will cost a fortune. Their time for the 500 meter record has come and in the flick of an eye... it is gone in the back pocket of Rob Douglas' wetsuit.

    FACT
     
  10. Blue Leader
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    Blue Leader Junior Member

    Does anybody know how deep the water was where L'Hydroptere set the "record" for the mile???? Are you familiar with the WSSRC water depth rule? I forgot, water depth rules only apply to kite records.........and the kite records were conducted in legal water depth.
     
  11. RHough
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    RHough Retro Dude

    Bla bla bla ... :)

    One of the challenges to water born speed under sail is that FACT that the sea state and wind strength change. Big wind in open water should equal big waves. When you select a site where you have big wind and little waves it is less than real world conditions. Kind of like claiming a world record speed for a bicycle being ridden in the draft of a pace car, or ridden downhill.

    Yes the fact is that the kites can sail 54 knots in 40 knots of breeze. Quite a feat to be sure. But 1.2 time wind speed? wow ... not WOW. 21 knots in 7 knots of breeze would be a Wow ... 60 knots in 20 would be a WOW.

    30+ knots over 24 hours and for a Trans-Atlantic passage are more noteworthy than 50+ in a ditch. Just my opinion of course. :)
     
  12. Blue Leader
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    Blue Leader Junior Member

    One of the challenges to water born speed????? real world conditions.....big waves......riding down hill.......What??????
    The 24 hr trans atlantic guys drink tee in the cockpit with their feet up on the pedestal and talk to their wives on skype!!!!!! The kiters shoot a 4 meter wide trench with max speeds over 58 kts.....Real world challenges, are you serious!!!!!! Go stick your head out of the car window at 68mph........now open the door and jump out onto the sand!!!! Then you can talk to the kiters about the real world!!!!!!

    .....and its not 50...its 55kts!
     
  13. RHough
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    RHough Retro Dude

    I used to do this:

    SIDECARsm.jpg

    Don't preach to me about falling off a kite board at only 55 knts. :p
     
  14. Blue Leader
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    Blue Leader Junior Member

    R Hough-

    You did the preaching and since your Max speed on water under sail(topic of discussion) is most likely very slow you don't have much to stand on. Looks like a paved road in your picture.......doesn't look rough enough to me!!!
     

  15. cardsinplay
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    cardsinplay da Vinci Group


    That's a monkey on a jungle jim sissy ride, Randy. They have three wheels.

    Real bikers slam two wheel drifts on the corkscrew at Laguna Seca ;-)

    Sidecars are fun, though. I'll give you that.
     
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