Luderitz Speed Challenge New World Record of 54.1 knots

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by cardsinplay, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Paul Larsen`s response pretty well sums it up, perhaps we should look at different categories - and Hydroptere should be classed a foiler, not a sailboat, following this train of thought. Then all Doug`s claims of moths and Mirabaud being the fastest sailboats will come to nothing, in fact they would become one of the slowest foilers..
    I guess that everyone has their personal favourite type of "sailing" craft, mine is multi`s and sailboards, but I don`t have an issue that the kiters are ten knots faster than the windsurfers, and sail at more than double the speed of my catamaran. These guys are at the top of their game - you won`t see recreational kiters go out in over 30knots, and most only acchieve speeds of around 25knots at most, unless they are on purpose-designed boards. That should give an understanding of the enormity of this acchievement.
    Doug would be happy if Macquarie broke the record at Sandy point, despite the fact that they sail 10ft from the beach to get flat water, and the craft resembles more of an aircraft than a sailboat. It has foils, and a wing, so it ticks all his boxes. Although I think it`s an impressive craft, in my opinion it has very little to do with the world of sailing.
    And that is why everyone feels differently about all the things we discuss here - we have our own opinions.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Statement from Team Hydroptere:

    "Alain Thebault and the whole Hydroptere team congratulate Alexandre Caizergues for his incredible performance i.e. 54.1 knots over 500 meters yesterday in Namibia. Thus Alexandre Caizergues sets the reference time for 500 meters.
    However, Hydroptere remains the holder of the absolute sailing speed record on one nautical mile at 51.17 knots. This record was beaten[set by Hydroptere] last November in Hyeres."


    Note: record accomplished on the open sea with 1.5 m waves at end of run.
     
  3. cardsinplay
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    cardsinplay da Vinci Group


    For the kites, this is equivalent to a three inch disturbance on the surface. They're already handling that, so where's the beef that the kite guys can't deal with waves?
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    From Scuttlebutt tonight:

    John Reed, Secretary to the World Sailing Speed Record Council, contacted
    Scuttlebutt to clarify the official status of the speeds being set in
    Luderitz: "It is incorrect to state that the WSSRC has ratified the speeds
    reported from Luderitz," said John. "No formal claim has yet been made, so
    any claim is 'Subject to WSSRC Ratification'."

    Here's the scoop: Even though the event organizer is allegedly verifying the
    speeds onsite using WSSRC standards, the speeds are not truly official until
    a claim for ratification is submitted directly to the WSSRC. Since each
    claim requires a fee, not each 'record time' is submitted and officially
    published.

    This happened at the 2008 Luderitz Speed Challenge when kiter Rob Douglas
    (USA) set a new outright world speed sailing record with a time of 49.84
    knots. However, you won't find Rob's name in the record book because he
    never submitted a claim. Why? Because at the same event, Alex Caizergues
    (FRA) later pushed the mark up to 50.57 knots, which nobody exceeded. So
    Alex submitted the claim, which was published in the record book after it
    was ratified. A year later in Luderitz, Alex raised it to 50.98 knots, which
    he again successfully submitted for ratification.

    Therefore, the speed set by Alex Caizergues (FRA) on Tuesday of 54.10
    (averaged along a 500 meter distance) is UNOFFICIALLY the new Outright World
    Speed Sailing Record, and remains 'Subject to WSSRC Ratification'. The
    official record remains to be held by the foiling trimaran Hydroptere with
    skipper Alain Thebault (FRA), which in 2009 set a speed of 51.36 knots in
    Hyeres, France. However, it is safe to say that by the end of this month,
    one of the kiters at the 2010 Luderitz Speed Challenge will be holding the
    world crown. It's just a matter of who it will be.


    Luderitz Speed Challenge: http://www.luderitz-speed.com
    World Sailing Speed Record Council: http://www.sailspeedrecords.com
     
  5. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Against my better judgement, I'd like to wade on into this debate...

    1. Extraordinary effort
    2. It's a kite-sailing record. No doubt, but no more
    3. If it can't float with it's full compliment of crew on board, it's not a boat.
    4. Preparing a man-made lake and refining it to increase speeds could hardly be called cheating, but it's definitely the start of a slippery slope.
    5. Extraodinary effort

    No need to hurl abuse at me... just my opinion and I have no more to say on the matter.

    oh... except, extraordinary effort...
     
  6. Munter
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    Munter Amateur

    I don't disagree with anything you've said except that in 2. - distinguishing between kites and everything else that is considered a sail is an arbitrary distinction that doesn't need to be made (after all - isn't a solid sail even stranger?). The rules don't specify sails of any particular type and surely it is the wind powered aspect that is the key concept that must be complied with. and
    3. sailboards don't float their entire crew and yet their achievements don't seem to called for any special exclusion. Applying some retrospective requirement that the craft retain the properties of previous sailing craft is also arbitrary and just an artefact of historical speedsailing challenges rather than an interpretation of the requirements of the rules.

    This isn't intended as abuse - just an explanation of where I think the points you make could be progressed. Having a kite hold the record doesn't lessen the achievements of the boat based speed sailing contenders, it just means that a faster configuration has been developed within the constraints of the requriements of the WSSRC rule set. A constructive outcome would be to analyse why the kites are so fast. Somebody else in this forum recently pointed out that it was probably because the sailor has such immediate control over the hydro surfaces that they can control more power with less drag than other configurations. How about the "boaters" learn from that and use it to improve their craft to take it to the next level? After all, the kite configuration has its own drawbacks - the kiter looks pretty draggy for example.
     
  7. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Will, I see your sense of logic, but like Munter I can`t agree, as a kiteboard DOES support the weight of it`s crew WHILE SAILING. Hydroptere does NOT support it`s crew and it`s own weight ON IT`S FOILS while not sailing. So your definition of a boat, while sounding sensible, implies that in order for Hydroptere`s record to be valid, it should either not be on foils while attempting a record, or it should float on it`s foils while stationary. Ie it should be behaving like a "boat" while setting records. This is YOUR criteria for enabling it to be called a "boat".
    And Sailrocket and Macquarie can`t be called a boat as they can`t sail in more than one direction (that`s my idea of a sailboat, it should at least be able to sail on port and starboard - see it`s a personal thing, the definition of a boat)
    As Munter says, the WSSRC rules apply, and no other definitions need to be applied, it`s a wind-powered record on water (which is not frozen). I believe that the WSSRC implemented a new rule a few years ago which defined the minimum depth of water, after the kites started sailing in 2 inches of water, as there was a lot of discussion about lift created by ground effect. So they are trying to address the inequalities in conditions which might favour one group which another can`t take advantage of, but still allow the freedom of maximising the potential of the craft.
     
  8. Cheesy
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    Cheesy Senior Member

    The title of this thread might need updating, 55.65kt !!
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Wow! Incredible--kite? In the ditch?
     
  10. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Kind of doubt the resident attention-magnet is lobbying the management to change the title. He's still maintaining his filibuster on admitting a kiteboard has blown past the current mark. If it was done on foils it already would have been changed.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  11. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    What`s interesting is that 5th place kiter is at 52.9knots, and the women are breaking through 50.
    I hope Paul Larsen`s new sailrocket is something special, and Hydroptere`s new cat is faster than their tri.. The kiters seem to have moved the goalposts a long way forward.
     
  12. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    But don`t worry Doug, it`s not really sailing.. it`s AIMING...:D
     
  13. P Flados
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    P Flados Senior Member

    For all fellow "go fast dreamers" that would really rather have somewhere to sit on their water craft, these Kiters seem to advancing the record at an alarming rate. The sailboarders were bad, but these guys are something else.

    Of course the real story is that they have found a configuration that has big advantages with respect to the laws of physics. The ability to go real fast is there if you have the strength, skill, guts and smarts. They also have advantages in that they have found a location that is suitable for their needs and they have this annual event that allows them to collaborate and work out the bugs as a group. The event also sets them up such that the WSSRC rules are really not holding back the actual challengers.

    The fact that a kite and board cost a magnitude less than a competitive boat challenge just opens the game up to a lot more people. Again, if you have what it takes, you too could get your name in the book.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    These guys deserve a lot of credit and I congratulate them-both men and women are going very fast.
    I've heard how this is such a small investment that anybody can do it. Maybe, with a custom built ditch and 45 knots of wind-which ,I think, might raise the cost of achieving this kind of speed a bit.
    But anyway you look at it- it is fast! And it takes guts to sail in a narrow trench going that fast.
    Be interesting to see how fast the kites or boards would be over a nautical mile....
     

  15. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    One personal truth I've found is that all excellence is equally difficult. Although the platform cost may appear lower, I'd bet everyone at the top end of the list has invested one hell of a lot of time, money and scar tissue in getting there. Basically, what I mean is that the game isn't any more open or getting in the record books any easier.

    I think it takes on hell of a lot of guts to head down a trench on a kiteboard at 50+ knots. Pitchpoling into water is like concrete at 20 knots plus (and I have personally experienced this), hitting the rock and gravel siding this trench is certainly life threatening.

    --
    CutOnce
     
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