Lateen sails

[CapKos]

I forgot to ask: is the mast really out of the centerline, like in the sketch?
CapKos

[miloman]

here is a question that might be interesting. What about a two mast situation where the lateen is hung between the masts. This would illiminate a good and bad side. It looked like this was how some of the older boat sketches from earlier in the tread were rigged. The two masts wound certainly add weight, complexity, and airresistence up top, and might have an effect on off the wind performance, does this make any sense?

Love to here your opinions.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by miloman

here is a question that might be interesting. What about a two mast situation where the lateen is hung between the masts. This would illiminate a good and bad side. It looked like this was how some of the older boat sketches from earlier in the tread were rigged. The two masts wound certainly add weight, complexity, and airresistence up top, and might have an effect on off the wind performance, does this make any sense?

Love to here your opinions.

I presume you mean with the masts side by side.

I have thought of this idea. It occured to me that if you had the two masts come together at the top, some distance above the yard, you would have an 'A' frame set up which could have several advantages over a single mast. Chief amongst them would be the possibility of having it deck stepped with only two shrouds on each side holding it up. Because of the short mast needed for a lateen rig, it would be much easier to rase and lower than a conventional mast. And that would be its major advantage.

I don't think, however, that such a mast would be all that effective in keeping the sail off it in anthing lower than a close reach unless the boat in question is very wide (like a catamaran). But, still, I think it should be tried. My only worry is that we will end up with two bad tacks instead of just one.

The 'A' frame mast, to work, must have a spreader between its two legs right above the hoisting block to keep it centered. The load of this block must be transfered directly to the apex of this 'A' frame, so that all of its loads are in (mostly) compression rather than bending.

This same thing could be accomplished with two parallel masts with a sturdy cross piece on top, joinging them together. The hoisting block in this case could hang from between two cables, each leading to the top of a mast, which form a 90 deg. 'V', pointing downward. This arrangement could be used on narrower boats, but the two masts, in this case, must be considered 'free standing' and be designed accordingly. It would be very difficult, indeed, to hold this arrangement up with stays or shrouds. I have sketched such a rig for one of my design concepts. I even gave this rig a name. I called it a 'gallows rig'.

Bob

[velelatine]

Video lateen sail Canaria Isald (35 min)

http://www.velelatine.it/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=100

[Guillermo]

Enrico,
I'll try to watch the film whenever I have 35 minutes to spare.
Cheers!

[Florian]

Here is my plan for a lateen rig on my boat instead of the origenal one. My bermuda rig is a bit old and I would like to try something different. I am planing to make the yard from two surfmasts wich I mound with the buttumsides on one third of below (by the masttop). This would give me a cheap and ligt yard. the mast can be of heavyer matirial becouse its very small. for reefing I intend to bring the entire yard dowm becouse a rail is far to expensive and just reconect the sail a bit lower can be made quite easy. With a traditional rig you also have to bring down the genua to switch it and than reaf the mainsail, In my case it's done in one time. I am still looking for a fastest and easyest way so suggestions re welcom.


About the sail between two masts: someone here in Holland dit it with a crab clw rig, he made the sail a bit small becouse he didn't know how it would react but is was quite succesfull. while tacking it didn't tuch any of the masts and becouse of the two controllines in top he coul chance the vertical angle of the sail so he could depower it by bringing the top to leeward or give it a bit more power while heeling by bringing the top to luff (and the bottem they opposit way in both situations.

[yipster]

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/att...7&d=1172760576
interesting but not there yet

[danielro]

Relating the performance of the lateen sail depending on the sailplan form, mainly depending on the rake of the ¿perch? (forward rig to the sail is attached) i useful to take a look at Chapter 11 of CA Marchaj "Sail Performance" Theory and Practice.
Best Regards from Las Palmas, Canary Island

[danielro]

An as a very different type of lateen sail racing boat here show the "barquillo" that sail in Fuerteventura and Lanzarote islands making "all round" courses (not only windward i mean, as the Las Palmas, Gran Canaria boats showed before).
The hull remembers those of small whalers boats of portuguese atlantic islands
More images in www.fuertevela.com

[Guillermo]

Hola Daniel!
I didn't know the 'barquillos'. Very nice.
I've seen you live in the Canry islands. In which one of them?
I use to go to the Canaries from time to time. I'm flying just tomorrow to Fuerteventura for business and I'll stay for a couple of days at the ex-Parador, close to Puerto del Rosario.
I've seen in your Gallery the image down here. Did you design that fishing boat? What do you do for a living? (If I may ask). Please send me a PM to info<at>gestenaval<dot>com or call my office to 986508436 and leave your contact data if you could be interested in talking business.
Un cordial saludo.

[keith66]

These mediterranean lateeners are lovely boats and obviously perform well, however i cant help remembering CA Marchaj's tests that showed the lateen in a very poor light against the crab claw rig, having had some practical experience of the crab claw, i have recently posted my thoughts on the rig in another thread on the open discussion part of this forum "What about the Crab claw" if anyone cares to have a look.

[danielro]

Keith, Could you attach the "What about the crab claw" internet address here? i can't find the post, :-(
My experience sailing is in Las Palmas lateen sail racing boats. Having 40 sq. m. sail of 13 m. luff, they are very powerful (only have 6.7 m. lenght) and the near vertical rake of the "perch" made them go windward easily with a good angle. To sail in another courses is, how can i say it... a bit... scaring... having in mind the sail size and that the normal trade winds here blows normally over 15 knots.
Regards.
Daniel

[lewisboats]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

I presume you mean with the masts side by side.

I have thought of this idea. It occured to me that if you had the two masts come together at the top, some distance above the yard, you would have an 'A' frame set up which could have several advantages over a single mast. Chief amongst them would be the possibility of having it deck stepped with only two shrouds on each side holding it up. Because of the short mast needed for a lateen rig, it would be much easier to rase and lower than a conventional mast. And that would be its major advantage.

I don't think, however, that such a mast would be all that effective in keeping the sail off it in anthing lower than a close reach unless the boat in question is very wide (like a catamaran). But, still, I think it should be tried. My only worry is that we will end up with two bad tacks instead of just one.

The 'A' frame mast, to work, must have a spreader between its two legs right above the hoisting block to keep it centered. The load of this block must be transfered directly to the apex of this 'A' frame, so that all of its loads are in (mostly) compression rather than bending.

This same thing could be accomplished with two parallel masts with a sturdy cross piece on top, joinging them together. The hoisting block in this case could hang from between two cables, each leading to the top of a mast, which form a 90 deg. 'V', pointing downward. This arrangement could be used on narrower boats, but the two masts, in this case, must be considered 'free standing' and be designed accordingly. It would be very difficult, indeed, to hold this arrangement up with stays or shrouds. I have sketched such a rig for one of my design concepts. I even gave this rig a name. I called it a 'gallows rig'.

Bob

Been done: http://www.flyinglateen.com/welcome.html or very similar to what you describe.

Here is the Woodenboat Forum post where I came across it. Seems it wasn't very successful. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulleti...ht=lateen+Sail

Personally I don't see how it would work properly going downwind and lateens were never the best for going to windward...so it would seem to have a very narrow slot where it WOULD work.

Steve

[yipster]

ok maybe not perfect on all courses but thats looks like a clean lateen with anchored sailfoot in a tripod on a mono
wonder how she sails ...why do i miss a backstay somehow...

[lewisboats]

Is that your artwork on the sail . Here is the picture from the link I provided above

Steve

Edit...Nope, I see you navigated a bit and pulled someone elses photoshopping. I like the white version better