Laser 470 Build

[NA me]

where can i get a drawing of a Laser dinghy?

[gggGuest]

If you mean where can you get working drawings of a Laser 4.7 so that you can build one then the answer is you can't. The class is a tightly controlled one design where boats may only be built and sold by a very limited number of suppliers worldwide, and the same applies to all major components.

If you mean where can you find an outline sketch of a Laser 4.7 then a search engine will do thetrick. Here for instance... http://lsd-admin.torresen.com/laser....ilsBoomsMasts2

[latestarter]

I agree with gggGuest

I used to race Lasers in the 1970s/80s.

There were no plans available then, not even detailed dimensions.
They came with a small card which was the measurement certificate.

From memory, if the certificate was lost, or there was a concern that a Laser had gone out of shape, the procedure was to measure 3 or 5 Lasers picked at random and if the first Laser was within an allowable tolerance of the average of the other Lasers it was still acceptable.

[NA me]

cool to know.

sooo. i want to build a dinghy that could be sailed.
not for sailing. but to know how to build one. i was planning to use foam and fibers.
if the outline is the same would the stability be the same? have anyone cut open a laser to see what is the arrangement inside?

what is so special bout the laser? tell meh.

[Olav]

There's nothing special about a Laser, but they don't want to see their design being copied too easily. It's quite common in one-design classes with only one or just a handful of licensed builders not to publish any drawings of the boat.

However, there used to be a Laser hull model in an open FREE!ship library. I don't know if it still exists, but you can find the file attached to this post. I have no idea how accurate it is but in general the shape of a Laser hull seems to be met quite well.

Hope this helps.

[PAR]

The original Laser model is actually a fairly poor design by modern standards. In fact, all of these bluff bowed planning dinghies (typical of the era) pretty much suck. Thee also isn't anything special about the insides of a Laser, it's a deck cap and hull shell approach that's been standard entree for some generations.

Maybe this would be easier if you told us what you actually wanted NA me, so that we could address specifics instead of generalities.

Attached is the Laser and you can see the bluff bow sections.

[latestarter]

PAR, I think you are being a bit harsh on the Laser.

40 years from when it was designed, it still fills a niche for a simple to sail, single-handed, car-toppable racing dinghy.

I admit I am out of touch with modern dinghies but spending some time googling, there do not seem to be many other options.

It is a good dinghy to learn the basics and develop racing tactics, before moving on to boats with trapezes, foils etc. if desired.

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by latestarter

PAR, I think you are being a bit harsh on the Laser.

40 years from when it was designed, it still fills a niche for a simple to sail, single-handed, car-toppable racing dinghy.

I admit I am out of touch with modern dinghies but spending some time googling, there do not seem to be many other options.

It is a good dinghy to learn the basics and develop racing tactics, before moving on to boats with trapezes, foils etc. if desired.

He's not being harsh at all. Just realistic. There are lots of options available - and a lot of options that have disappeared during the Laser's tenure. Sailing is a sport where incumbent one design racing classes can and do mercilessly crush competitive boats due to fleet strength. It is next to impossible to allow newer, better designs to gain a foothold, if everyone in the category refuses to change boats because they will have no fleet to race in.

From a designer's standpoint, there is no more miserable state of affairs possible. Faster, safer, more comfortable, better and cheaper don't matter if people aren't willing to consider change.

Add this undeniable condition to the current state of the economy and we'll be seeing the Laser dominating single hand hiking boats for the next 40 years as well.

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CutOnce

[latestarter]

You make some valid points about the difficulty of new designs to establish themselves and I am not arguing that the Laser is still the best available, it ought not be after 40 years of development in design and materials, but that does not make it a bad boat.

You say "There are lots of options available" could you name 5 that meet the design criteria "a simple to sail, single-handed, car-toppable racing dinghy."

[tom28571]

If you want the latest technology in construction, the latest fad in style, the latest technology in hydrodynamics then the Laser is old and outdated.

If you want to race in large and competitive fleets with the best sailors, the Laser provides that as well or better than any other single handed dinghy.

Establishing a fleet in a sailing club is a difficult process and once established, its understandable that there is reluctance to change things and obsolete all the older boats and their owners along with them. I've seen too often that some sailors, usually ones in the back of the fleet, get new and "improved" boats and eventually kill the older class and reduce the club membership along with it.

The Laser still provides all the challenge and fun most sailors want or need. Same goes for the lowly Sunfish. It all depends on what you sail for, racing in competition or sailing alone in the latest and greatest.

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by latestarter

You make some valid points about the difficulty of new designs to establish themselves and I am not arguing that the Laser is still the best available, it ought not be after 40 years of development in design and materials, but that does not make it a bad boat.

You say "There are lots of options available" could you name 5 that meet the design criteria "a simple to sail, single-handed, car-toppable racing dinghy."

Scow Moth. Force Five. Megabyte. Raider. Phantom. Europe. Byte. Blaze. OK. Solo. Topper. RS300. Splash. Sabre. Invitation ...

I can keep going if needed.

There is nothing wrong with the Laser - and as Mr. Lathrop has very capably demonstrated, it's followers are perfectly willing to place it above judgment for what it is. Fleet solidarity trumps everything in the sailing world.

If other markets maintained the same attitudes as Laser fleets:
- I would still be driving my beloved 1970 Chevrolet Belair two door
- TV's would all be black and white 14' diagonal with rabbit ear antennas. And they would be made in America.
- We'd still be watching Mayberry RFD. Ron Howard would still be Opie.
- Milk would be delivered to my door
- We'd shop in little stores lining the downtown main street
- We re-elect the Republican House of Representatives that caused the economic banking disaster that destroyed the world economy (Oops, we did)

You get my point.

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CutOnce

[latestarter]

I did a quick comparison and the Laser is standing up to time surprisingly well.
It is almost as fast as a Megabyte (only 0.33% slower) and faster than the Raider, OK, Force 5, Europe, Solo, Byte, Splash and Topper.

The ones faster than the Laser tend to be more complex or need heavier helms, as you say
"There is nothing wrong with the Laser"

I get your point on progress however the beauty of racing round the buoys is you can get the same fun today as I did 30 years ago in the same design.

I used to enjoy my motorbike of 35 years ago putting out 46 bhp, more than my present one producing 100 bhp. You could open it up and still feel in control. The present one you can rarely go above half throttle. I am probably showing my age.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by latestarter

I did a quick comparison and the Laser is standing up to time surprisingly well.
It is almost as fast as a Megabyte (only 0.33% slower) and faster than the Raider, OK, Force 5, Europe, Solo, Byte, Splash and Topper.

The ones faster than the Laser tend to be more complex or need heavier helms, as you say
"There is nothing wrong with the Laser"

There certainly is a crop of much faster, much more exciting singlehanders but then you are talking trapeze, hiking racks, asymmetrical spinnakers etc. Prices go up too. RS600, RS700, RS100, Devoti D-One, Swiftsolo .... All the previous examples were more or less aimed at the Laser.

Originally Posted by latestarter

I get your point on progress however the beauty of racing round the buoys is you can get the same fun today as I did 30 years ago in the same design.

I used to enjoy my motorbike of 35 years ago putting out 46 bhp, more than my present one producing 100 bhp. You could open it up and still feel in control. The present one you can rarely go above half throttle. I am probably showing my age.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

I hear you. British motorcycles from the 70s. Oil spraying Triumphs & Nortons. Guys with one leg twice the size of the other from kickstarting 750cc's of high compression triples. Drive them out, push them home reliability.

Been there, done that!

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CutOnce

[gggGuest]

Originally Posted by NA me

sooo. i want to build a dinghy that could be sailed.
not for sailing. but to know how to build one. i was planning to use foam and fibers.

OK, then what you want to do is to pick out one of the classes that has a strong foam/epoxy/fibre home build ethos, and preferably one that's got folks who build boats in the same country as you...
I don't know which country you are in, but, for instance, start here for one of the best examples... http://www.uk-cherub.org/doku.php/tech/technical

[daiquiri]

I've sailed Lasers, and consider them a real joy-generating little boats.

So, I must be missing a point here... What exactly would be the things that make Lasers obsolete and less fun to sail, when compared to more recent equivalent (size, rigging) designs?