Kite, 49er, Moth: who's the fastest of them all(around a course)?

[Doug Lord]

From SA: a neat story is developing-who's the fastest around a windward/leeward course-here is the preview video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH_wX...layer_embedded

Here is the link to the SA thread(and poll): http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/ind...&#entry3080364


PS- I'll just bet the foiler---well, you know.....

[Doug Lord]

Rumor on SA is that the kite won......

If so it would have been with MUCH more SA than a Moth!

[Doug Lord]

49er:
49er Specifications

Designer: Julian Bethwaite
Year designed: 1996
Length: 4.995m (16'4")
Beam: 2.4m (7'9")
Draft: 1.4m (4'6")
Spinnaker Pole Length: 1.2m (3'9")
Mast Height: 7.0m (22'10")
Area Mainsail: 20.0sqm/ 215.2 sq.ft.
Area Jib: 5.0sqm / 53.8 sq.ft.
Total Upwind:269 sq.ft.
Area Spinnaker: 50.0sqm / 538sq.ft.
Total Downwind: 807 sq. ft.
Hull Weight: 80kg (176lb)
Sailing Weight: 120kg (265lb)
Sailing weight with 2@175lb= 279.5kg (615lb)
No. of Crew (total): 2
No. of crew on Trapeze: 2
Minimum Crew Weight: 135kg (298lb)
Maximum Crew Weight: 170kg (375lb)

W/SA:
Upwind-2.28
Downwind- .76
===========================
Moth Specifications
LOA 11' (approx. 12.75' w/gantry)
Beam 7.38'
SA 86sq.ft.
Boat weight 66lb
crew weight ? (150-190)
Sailing weight with 175lb crew=241lb
W/SA-2.8

===========================
Kite specifications ?

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

49er:
49er Specifications

Designer: Julian Bethwaite
Year designed: 1996
Length: 4.995m (16'4")
Beam: 2.4m (7'9")
Draft: 1.4m (4'6")
Spinnaker Pole Length: 1.2m (3'9")
Mast Height: 7.0m (22'10")
Area Mainsail: 20.0sqm
Area Jib: 5.0sqm
Area Spinnaker: 50.0sqm
Hull Weight: 80kg (176lb)
Sailing Weight: 120kg (265lb)
Sailing weight with 2@175lb= 279.5kg (615lb)
No. of Crew (total): 2
No. of crew on Trapeze: 2
Minimum Crew Weight: 135kg (298lb)
Maximum Crew Weight: 170kg (375lb)
===========================
Moth Specifications
LOA 11' (approx. 12.75' w/gantry)
Beam 7.38'
SA 86sq.ft.
Boat weight 66lb
crew weight ? (150-190)
Sailing weight with 175lb crew=241lb

===========================
Kite specifications ?

The 49er is a bit of a heavy bitch isnt it, 120kg. As for the kite specs you will want to know the board size (L & W), quad or three fin as well as fin length. You will also need the line length and the kite make and size, then you will have to figure out what the numbers mean.... depending on the brand kites go in steps of roughly 6m^2 9m^2 12m^2 16m^2

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

The 49er is a bit of a heavy bitch isnt it, 120kg. As for the kite specs you will want to know the board size (L & W), quad or three fin as well as fin length. You will also need the line length and the kite make and size, then you will have to figure out what the numbers mean.... depending on the brand kites go in steps of roughly 6m^2 9m^2 12m^2 16m^2

------------------------
The 49er appears heavy but it is one of the most powered up dinghies under 20' with incredibly low W/SA and probably a very high SCP/Total Weight. The W/SA shows that it would be a good foiler ,but Julian has already proved that it foils.
From many previous round the course encounters it is already known that when the Moth is on foils it is faster than a 49er.
The great unknown is the kite round a course. If the rumour pans out that will be impressive. I hope we can finally get the kite stats......

[cardsinplay]

The specs are meaningless, as we do not know if the craft in question were stone stock, or modified in any way. The Moth, being a development class, can be wildly configured, as long as it stays within the generic rules. Kites can be of any type and configuration and so can the boards.

This thing is like so many of these goofy speed comparisons that some folks seems to thrive upon... It proves next to nothing and it's worth as much in the final analysis.

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by cardsinplay

The specs are meaningless, as we do not know if the craft in question were stone stock, or modified in any way. The Moth, being a development class, can be wildly configured, as long as it stays within the generic rules. Kites can be of any type and configuration and so can the boards.

This thing is like so many of these goofy speed comparisons that some folks seems to thrive upon... It proves next to nothing and it's worth as much in the final analysis.

Im pretty sure that the point of this was to illustrate to people that kites can go around WL courses and kind of fast at that, look the SA thread and you will see that there is a pretty large group of people who still thinks kites cant go upwind! It may have something to do with Olympic classes as well.....

[cardsinplay]

I agree with your summation, Cheesy.

All the rest that's posted here... nope.

[Cheesy]

Here are some of the rules for you Doug;

From 2011 on, racing will take place in an open division and in a production division, which is strictly box-rule controlled and limited to 1 board and 3 kites that every competitor can register per event.

The dimension of the boards to be registered are:

Max Length: 190 cm
Max Width: 70 cm
Max Fin Length: 50 cm (no change from current class rules)
Min Weight: 4 kg (for directional boards only)
Max Kite Size: 19 sqm (no change from current class rules)
Max Line Length: 45 m from bar to top of kite (no change from current class rules)
Max Boards per event: 1
Max Kites per event: 3
Min number of equipment produced: 50

These limitations will be used for a separate division in 2011 and will become class rules and thus the only allowed equipment for racing from 2012.

The minutes of the meeting will be published in the next days with further explanations and voting results.

The IKA is convinced that the limitation to box-rule restricted racing equipment gives kiteboard racing another boost as equipment becomes affordable and accessable for a wider audience.

Taken from here
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=2367385

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

Here are some of the rules for you Doug;

From 2011 on, racing will take place in an open division and in a production division, which is strictly box-rule controlled and limited to 1 board and 3 kites that every competitor can register per event.

The dimension of the boards to be registered are:

Max Length: 190 cm
Max Width: 70 cm
Max Fin Length: 50 cm (no change from current class rules)
Min Weight: 4 kg (for directional boards only)
Max Kite Size: 19 sqm (no change from current class rules)
Max Line Length: 45 m from bar to top of kite (no change from current class rules)
Max Boards per event: 1
Max Kites per event: 3
Min number of equipment produced: 50

These limitations will be used for a separate division in 2011 and will become class rules and thus the only allowed equipment for racing from 2012.

The minutes of the meeting will be published in the next days with further explanations and voting results.

The IKA is convinced that the limitation to box-rule restricted racing equipment gives kiteboard racing another boost as equipment becomes affordable and accessable for a wider audience.

Taken from here
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=2367385

------------------------
Cheesy, am I right the the foiler kite(boards) that just did so well at the Trophee St. Clair are outlawed by these rules? Say it ain't so......

[cardsinplay]

I think that homologation will be a good step for this type of kiting. It will spread the sport consistently around the world, while still leaving pure recreational kiters the opportunity to bump around with their own preferred gear.

Your comment about making the sport more affordable than it already is also carries weight. As the sport grows, you'll see more cruising boaters having a selection of kiting kit on board instead of the space hog sailboards. By touching more incidental riders, the chances of having a series of kiting superstars emerge, as well as potent advancements in technical gear also grows in potential.

I'll bet that foiling craft builders only wish they could make the number of product sales that the kite industry already enjoys around the world.

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

------------------------
Cheesy, am I right the the foiler kite(boards) that just did so well at the Trophee St. Clair are outlawed by these rules? Say it ain't so......

Well if they have fins longer than 500mm they would be, the only issue I would have with these rules is the production board bit, thats just a personal opinion though as I would rather make one myself than buy one... Having said that it wouldnt matter locally anyway, would probably get away with a foil board as well. Neither a race board or a foil board would be much good in the local spot though as it is too shallow and too much weed.

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

Im pretty sure that the point of this was to illustrate to people that kites can go around WL courses and kind of fast at that, look the SA thread and you will see that there is a pretty large group of people who still thinks kites cant go upwind! It may have something to do with Olympic classes as well.....

Another Apple/Orange/Grapefruit/Banana comparison. You think people would get tired of it.

Even if the point was around the cans - putting the no-upwind myth about boarding to death, the problem is that in different conditions, there are different results. In a ghoster, the kite boarder would be on the beach chatting up suitable playmates, the foiler would be in the club bar drawing new wing ideas on napkins, and the 49er would be out practicing roll tacks.

My point is that comparing various fruits to each other is pointless and a waste of time.

--
CutOnce

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by CutOnce

Another Apple/Orange/Grapefruit/Banana comparison. You think people would get tired of it.

Even if the point was around the cans - putting the no-upwind myth about boarding to death, the problem is that in different conditions, there are different results. In a ghoster, the kite boarder would be on the beach chatting up suitable playmates, the foiler would be in the club bar drawing new wing ideas on napkins, and the 49er would be out practicing roll tacks.

My point is that comparing various fruits to each other is pointless and a waste of time.

--
CutOnce

True, they should have used a development class skiff instead of the 49er, a GP 18 or something along those lines.

[Doug Lord]

From Patrick on SA :

Posted Today, 12:34 PM

Hi everybody, thanks to everyone for voting and creating a great discussion.

The feature video will be aired tomorrow right here on SA, so come check it out.

Just a quick perspective. I made this video myself, not the kite company. I ride their kites, and like the guys that run the company, so I gave them a shout out in the opening credits. Same to the companies that have helped me or my friends try develop kite racing. I'm flattered that people think my work is even remotely "professional". Brad and I have been planning this showdown for a while...and the main goal is to show how much fun kiting is in the context of racing. To show it as a "kind of sailing" so that sailors are inspired to get into it.

I hope y'all like the final video...I tried to make it entertaining and unbiased. That's why racing is soooo cool...no judging...just whoever crosses first.

thanks again for sharing your opinions!...and please keep them coming-Patrick