KissCut-new Swiss Foiler

[Doug Lord]

Terry, this cat is the most innovative foiling cat I've ever seen. Take some time and look at it closely. All full flying cats before this have used three to four hydrofoils-this thing breaks the mold by using only two mounted in a center module that slides from side to side. It can be configured from "foil assist" to full flying . Note how the foils retract. Here is a bunch of information for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggxS6ZrVOw

http://cid-7e32cd25ce4f4c84.skydrive...x/happy%20feet

designer is natthavarat titapan --- nat-dezine@live.com

http://sailingthailand.ning.com/prof...=2h129b4137pja
---------------
This boat is just one more thing to consider. I think that a trimaran configuration with either fully submerged foils ,surface piercing foils or a bi-foil config may be much simpler for a small boat.....

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Terry, this cat is the most innovative foiling cat I've ever seen. Take some time and look at it closely. All full flying cats before this have used three to four hydrofoils-this thing breaks the mold by using only two mounted in a center module that slides from side to side. It can be configured from "foil assist" to full flying . Note how the foils retract. Here is a bunch of information for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggxS6ZrVOw

http://cid-7e32cd25ce4f4c84.skydrive...x/happy%20feet

designer is natthavarat titapan --- nat-dezine@live.com

http://sailingthailand.ning.com/prof...=2h129b4137pja

Interesting design. It looks far more complicated and on a far larger scale than what I proposed, but it does have a similar two foil configuration my proposed design does. It provides a little confirmation that my concept may not be as poor as one reviewer thinks!

This one is a little too expensive to be a garage project!

Cheers,

--
Bill

[ancient kayaker]

Interesting craft! I was particularly taken by the biplane rig; theoretically it is advantageous on many points and even straight downwind it can be goosewinged readily. yet another thing I want to fool around with someday. Looks like they are having problems with the longitudinal stability that my own studies have indicated.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by bistros

... It provides...confirmation that my concept may not be as poor as one reviewer thinks!

This one is a little too expensive to be a garage project!

Yes, that one is out of reach for the typical garage, but your take, Bill, has real merit.

I'd be grateful to have an involvement in a project, such as the one you propose. We will get it on the water and sailing, well before any Futz-Foil design by other, long threatening party's and won't that be a total wipe-out scoop on the playing field?

[Doug Lord]

Well, that would be terrific-two of the most anti-foiler individuals on boatdesign.net and sailing anarchy finally swing the other way and build their own foiler! Wow-I think that's great-great for foiling and a great benchmark.
Best of luck-go for it!

[Chris Ostlind]

Get this, Dougie and get it good.

Whatever we do, it has nothing to do with you. It will prove that a proper boat can be designed, built and successfully trialed in a very short period of time... should the people involved put themselves on the task, rather than some kind of weird, monkey dance, such as we have seen from you over the past four years.

For me, it's not even about foiling for foiling's sake. It's about exploring design potentials within the vast sphere of small craft. It's intriguing to me because it gives the readers of my site an opportunity to wander about the landscape a bit, sampling ideas as they go. Something along the lines of a huge, small boat buffet, where all the bits are tasty and more than a bit provocative.

As to your purposes, Doug, well...

[Doug Lord]

Sure, Mr. Ostlind-I understand perfectly. Best of luck on your new venture!

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

...For me, it's not even about foiling for foiling's sake. It's about exploring design potentials within the vast sphere of small craft...

For me, definitely the highlight of that post.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Well, that would be terrific-two of the most anti-foiler individuals on boatdesign.net and sailing anarchy finally swing the other way and build their own foiler! Wow-I think that's great-great for foiling and a great benchmark.
Best of luck-go for it!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm actually not "anti-foiling" at all - I'm potentially interested in making it happen within a very limited budget. I think creating an affordable homebuild foiler would be interesting.

I do have a long standing professional distaste for moving target product specifications, poor product planning, failed execution, over promotion and I absolutely hate unnecessary complexity. My difficulty with these issues is in direct conflict with some of the projects talked about here.

I've got to get Thomas' boat completed, and then I'll see how bad the boat building bug bites me. Hypothetically, it won't be hard to start the process this winter of defining a serious design brief, finding and building a team and perhaps building a little community support to help the project become real. I think you (Doug) have provided an excess of publicity for an affordable foiler - maybe someone should actually make one!

Cheers,

--
Bill

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by bistros

I think you (Doug) have provided an excess of publicity for an affordable foiler - maybe someone should actually make one!

Cheers,

--
Bill

=======================
Good Luck!

[bgulari]

The moth in the center of the happy feet does not move to windward or leeward.

start using 180 lbs in you moth figures doug

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by bgulari

The moth in the center of the happy feet does not move to windward or leeward.

start using 180 lbs in you moth figures doug

---------------------------
The module with the two hydrofoils does move side to side-it is one of the important design features of the boat.

http://sailingthailand.ning.com/prof...oot-breaks-leg


" plans for sunday, may 3, were "foiled" by saturdays accident. sailing in gusty westerly's, we had the pod to leeward for the first time and it was feeling quite good, thinking we could get the whole boat up. a gust came through but as the windward hull was lifting the cb broke clean away with a very loud bang. it made a nasty gash along the port hull bottom as it went past. repairs are underway but won't be finished for the club race on the 17th.

this boat is an ambitious development project with little precedent to draw from. i am satisfied with our success so far but setbacks can still be expected. obviously i will make everything stronger but also refine some of the mechanisms. the new lift foil will be asymmetric and have a greater range of flap angle. the sails have been re-cut and the rig is being re-evaluated to better control sail shape. "

[ancient kayaker]

I’ve been following this thread for a while with considerable interest. I hope it will not peter out, although all good things must end. I gathered Kisskut was intended as a kind of peoples’ foiler although the Swiss may have a rosy concept of what average people are prepared to pay.

My own thoughts on the peoples’ foiler continue to mature. It was frustrating for me to lose a year as I hoped to get 2 pre-foiling sailing platforms into the water this year and ended with nothing actually wet, best laid plans etc. However a couple of finished hulls are clogging the workshop awaiting rigs; health permitting my Summer of discontent will be made Glorious Winter by rig-building unparalleled ... er, I better take my medication ...

I suspect if the peoples’ foiler is to happen it might be as a plan or kit, perhaps a retrofit kit for suitable existing sailboats. That is the route I am taking presently, hence the “pre-foiling” in the previous para.

I don’t much fancy manual attitude control or auto control come to that, much prefer built-in stability for simplicity. IMHO it’s not the speed it’s the impression of it that will sell, like those noisy exhaust kits for Harleys. Foilers are still as common as hens teeth in my neck of the woods, but if I can fly one past the local marina on a race day who knows where it will lead ...

I think a previously-mentioned mini-hydroptere config has merit; I imagine a simple outrigger arrangement with very small amas flown clear of the water when foiling, like training wheels, with steerable surface piercing foils acting like Bruce foils to balance heeling moment, to be removable from a basic mono hull for those folk who believe in life after foiling. Not sure what should hold the stern up at this point though, probably a Tee foil. I may let the stern just drag initially, to see if that leads to the forward foils ventilating or stalling. Sail thrust may reduce weight on the stern somewhat. We’ll see.

My experience carving a daggerboard for my recently completed little sailboat with an accurate profile has given me some insight into what will be involved in making the foils. I probably didn’t need such an accurate profile, according to the designer, but he didn’t know I had an ulterior motive ... now I know I can produce the profile of my choice.

Before evolving to a foiler I must adapt from a longtime paddler to a sailor; at least I now have the means! I can try various rigs on the sailboat and also sails on some of my long-suffering kayaks and canoes. There are biplane rigs, lateens and wing sails to explore as well as more research into Bruce foils and derivatives.

By the way Bill, I haven’t forgotten you suggested contacting Steve Killing. Pioneers always face the biggest challenge and I personally have found I learn from my mistakes and merely confirm my theories with my successes, but I have no objection to learning from others!

[Doug Lord]

Terry, you might gain something by reading Tom Speers "Foiler Design" here-and don't forget Vellingas book-it is a must have for anyone experimenting with foils.
Have fun and good luck.....

[ancient kayaker]

I took another look at the foiler in post #31, after reading the following comments on it, which revealed what I had missed. The central module bears the foils and is moved laterally for balancing, as shown clearly in the picture in post 42.

Innovative yes, but it seems almost shockingly weird. The mechanical and control challenges must be formidable, especially in full-foiling mode. It is hard to believe that someone would go as far as to build such a coffee shop concept.

Does it have any advantage over movable ballast? The masts are vertical so there is no vectored thrust advantage in moving those with respect to the foils as well as the ballast. Why would anyone bother? It seems to me it would have been simpler to move the bridge and amas with respect to everything else, which could also be implemented in a retrofit foiling kit for an existing mono, but of course the biplane rig would have to go.

Keep up the good work, Doug! I am not even going to even think about incorporating this concept into any design of mine, but as an exercise in thinking outside of the box, it is mind-blowing.