Keel

[dskira]

It's always amazing to hear yachties discussing if it is possible to cruise on $1,000 a month, while cruising amoung people who live on a dollar a day.
$150 a month would cover my living expenses.

Brent thank you for your very knowledgeble input, you are quite a sailor!
I wish I will have done the same!
On your thought about living expenses I agree completly too.
Daniel

[sailingmonkey]

Thanks dskira & Brent
all i know about cruising is from reading,im looking to buy a sailboat and i like to buy aluminum sailboat,i found nice sailboat with twin keelers but i do not know anything about them (not much to read about them....)
as for living expense not only food is on my mind,all the maintenance of the boat as well........im about to go do some courses or find a boat to crew on and learn ,or buy a boat and get a good crew on and learn from them,,how ever it will work out.........

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Charles Burgess

Bilge keels on sailboats is still considered bleeding edge experimental and is only suitable for people who are very experienced and willing to take the risk (i.e. the Fastnet 1979 disaster). On powerboats a bilge keel is a anti-roll device and functions differently than a sailboat keel.

Sure, Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars are very exciting, but you would not want one as your daily driver. Likewise most things that make for a good race sailboat, makes a really lousy cruising sailboat.

Dude.

You need to read up.

At least one bilge keeler has sailed around the world successfully.

It was only 19 ft long and was, at the time, the smallest boat to girdle the globe. And that was almost fifty years ago.

Bilge keeled sailboats have the advantages of good directional stability, ability to ground without flopping over, and sometimes shallower draft.

They have the disadvantages of higher ballast placement, possibly reduced strength, and greater wetted area.

The final disadvantage is the most likely reason we don't see them on racers.

[ancient kayaker]

Experimental? Bilge keels have been around for ages, saw lots of them when I was a kid. If the Ark had sails it probably had bilge keels.

[dskira]

If the Ark had sails it probably had bilge keels.

So cool, the Ark with bilges keel and a sail. I think it will be quite a site.
Talk about moving ballast, all the animals on one side rushing to the other side at each tack.

[Crag Cay]

Bilge keels on sailboats is still considered bleeding edge experimental and is only suitable for people who are very experienced and willing to take the risk

What?? Is here a time warp?? Have we all been transported back to 1940?

Bilge keels come in all shapes and sizes and their pros and cons depend very much on their type.

Maurice Griffiths used them on a number of his designs 50 years ago and soon they became the standard configuration in the UK for boats that were designed to dry out on their moorings between tides. Increased wetted surface area and diminished windward performance were compromises many people were prepared to make as half tide moorings are so much cheaper here than deep water.

Typical of this generation of boats is the Corribee which is still clocking up thousands of offshore miles. http://thesimplesailor.com

In the seventies, the majority British Hunter yachts were bilge keels and the designer, David Thomas did a lot of work refining the idea and proving the reduction in performance and stability could be optimised to be marginal, at worse.

In the US, Charles Wittolz designed a number of bilge keelers, many of which I built for clients the world over. They all went blue water cruising without a problem.

More recently, Marc Lombard has made further strides with the genre, in his RM range of boats. Those over 10 metres are RCD Cat A. http://www.fastoceansailing.com/contenu/,home,1

[MikeJohns]

Originally Posted by sailingmonkey

Hi,
was looking at a boat with a bilge keel,is it good for offshore blue water sailing? it has a low draft and its nice to have i believe but im not sure how good or what will be a different from other keel? anyone knows ?

thank you

Bilge keels have been 'hit and miss' affairs. Their potential to severely disrupt the flow on a sailboat hull is high.
The interreaction of the hull and the two keels is very important to model test on twin keeled boats, and with sailboats this should include leeway.

Some designers have just been lucky, others have extensively resistance tested models first either of these are good vessels. However some twin keelers were were the slowest sailboats you will ever encounter.

[sailingmonkey]

Hi,
Its real interesting to read all the inputs here,which still not making it any easier,but i do like the low draft and that i believe i can beach a sailboat like that.
Does bilge keel affect the Motion Comfort in any way? and how about capsize,does it have any affect for that matter? and steel or aluminum...the only advantage i find with steel over alum is the price,its very tempting to go with steel but i think in the long run it will be very costly...i know i have allot of questions,and i have a million more,but the rest can wait after ill buy the boat.
the more im searching for sailboat the more confusing it gets, i have over 300 pages open at any giving time.maybe after a few weeks sailing i will know better.
i been reading about boats so much i could have got a degree in law by now and i still feel and know that i really do not know much at all.

Thanks again guys......

[MikeJohns]

Originally Posted by sailingmonkey

...............
Does bilge keel affect the Motion Comfort in any way? and how about capsize,does it have any affect for that matter? and steel or aluminum...the only advantage i find with steel over alum is the price,its very tempting to go with steel but i think in the long run it will be very costly........

Twin keel yachts are principally built for reduced draft and to stand upright when they dry out, I think all other design attributes are served just as well or better with a single keel and with less 'risk' in a new design.

Steel vs alloy.....There's not much in it IMHO , there are pristine 100yr old steel yachts and 10 yr old rust buckets, depends on the quality of the build, quality of the paint and a reasonable maintenance program on any vessel.

On a steel boat you shoul be able to access the insides of the hull for inspection and maybe periodic paint touchup, modern coatings dry bilges and insulation have considerably reduced the internal problems but even so you dont want a glued unremovable fitout in a steel boat. Attention to detail in the build is everythoing to longevity of steel structures.

Steel is the easiest and cheapest all the materials to repair and any experienced welder will produce a satisfactory job of such a repair.

[Brent Swain]

Roll damping is nowhere near as effective with a single keeler, and a single keeler is far more likely to spend more time sailing with a dirty bottm.
Those who are most negative about twin keelers are inevitably those with no real offshore expereince in one. Their opinions were cast in stone before they ever set foot on one, and will never change , because changing their opinion would be admitting their falibility..
Brent

[dskira]

Do you remember the little Englih cruiser The Silouhette? I think it spell like that.
It was in the sixties in plywood, with two keel.
I absolutly adored this boat, and I cruised with her for a time. What a treat!She had a powderhorn sheer, quite unusual, but she was well design all around.
Personally I like the two keel concept, quite safe and very practical.

[dskira]

Brent thank you for your very knowledgeble input, you are quite a sailor!
I wish I will have done the same!
On your thought about living expenses I agree completly too.
Daniel

Somebody, very courageous who didn't sign of course, find my post "a complete non-sence".
I don't know which part he find "Non-sence" He do not explaine of course.
It puzzle me the courage of the anonymes . For sure he is not a sailor.
Daniel

[capt vimes]

Originally Posted by Crag Cay.

More recently, Marc Lombard has made further strides with the genre, in his RM range of boats. Those over 10 metres are RCD Cat A. http://www.fastoceansailing.com/contenu/,home,1

thanks for this info...
these RM yachts look interesting, although i've never seen a chine hull made of reinforced plastic....

if she would come in alloy, it would be a very tempting yacht for me...

[Crag Cay]

They're not GRP. They are plywood with grp decks.

Although RM yachts make them this way, lots of other companies make Marc Lombard yachts in all sorts of materials including alloy. See his own website: http://www.marclombard.com

[capt vimes]

thanks!
did not know that the Ovni are one of his designs as well...