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Old 04-17-2016, 04:48 PM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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Jaguar 23 chainplates attachment method.

Good evening all

My first post so go easy!, I have a Jaguar 23 (Catalina in the states). The eye bolts on the deck that take the shrouds pass through the deck, then are bolted through a 6mm stainless steel tie rod that attaches to the moulded inner lining of the vessel.
This is where my question lies, I can understand the 6mm stainless ties but they bolt to an inner moulding that is approx 4mm polyester fibreglass that deflects very easily. I am aware that all sail like this but a lot of performance trailer sailers have their tie rods connecting to knees moulded to the hill skin to transfer the loads.

I come from a background of working with fibreglass and was wondering why this would not be done?

Many thanks

Steve
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2016, 02:31 PM
nota nota is offline
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built to a price boat
not the cheapest but near the bottom
and not really an offshore go anywhere boat
or built like one or priced like one

lots of better ways are skipped to get to a price point
or a clean clear look down below
wife's don't like clutter or stuff sticking out
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  #3  
Old 06-04-2016, 09:32 PM
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PAR PAR is offline
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Welcome to the forum.

If interested in making it better, cut away the liner and bond a hefty knee to the hull shell and attach the tie rod to it. In its current arrangement, there's a good bit of movement, which is easier on the rig, but not so good for rig performance dynamics. A knee can tighten things up, though point loading and rig tension should be addressed, by making the laminate under the knee, well staggered.
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:40 AM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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Happy new year all

Sorry for the long delay but have been busy, essentially I have done what you suggested Par. I'll post some photos if I can but I designed some longer bottle screws that attach to the bottom of the chainplates, and attach low down on the inner lining almost following the line of the shroud to help transfer any load.
The inner lining has been glassed to the hull with staggered layers of biaxial Matt and epoxy resin, I'm fitting a plywood knee running as far down the hull as I can which will then be over laminated with staggered plies of Matt and epoxy followed by peel ply. The bottom fixing for the tie rod bolts will go either side of the knee through the plies of laminate.
If the loads can damage this then something has seriously gone wrong!.

Thank you for your advice par

Steve
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:51 AM
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PAR PAR is offline
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No problem Steve. I'll assume the mat you're going to put over the knee is a stitch mat product (biax/mat combo), as mat alone really doesn't add any strength. Now, post some pictures so we can see your handy work . . .
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:30 PM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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Hi Par

The Matt I am using is staggered plies of xe600 stitched biaxial with epoxy, I'll post the pics in a week or so after its complete. The area seems so much stiffer now I've joined the inner skin to the hull even before the knees fitted!, should be good once it's done.

Thanks and happy new year all.

Steve
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:35 PM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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Just remembered!
The plies running down the hull towards the keel that the knee will be bonded to are going to be 2 x quadraxial 1200grm approx 240mm wide. The plywood knee will be bonded to this (after sealing it) then over laminated with 3 x xe 600g on both sides.

Steve
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:31 AM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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pictures

Hopefully this will work

The old eyebolts that the shrouds are attached to....


The old tie rods (Port side )


The inner skin that the tie rods attach to is not bonded to the hull at all, in my view the loads are not effectively being transferred to the hull.
In the picture it does not also show very well the angle that tie rod is sitting at, it doesn't follow the shroud loads at all.

Ill post the new tie rod pictures in a while and try and figure out how to reduce the image sizes.
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:16 AM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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pictures

The new interior brackets that spread the load better, fabricated out of 316 stainless, each Wichard bracket has two nuts holding it now rather than the single one of the old eyebolts (which were also bent by not rigging her properly).




The eyebolts have now been replaced with Wichard load tested ones and new interior brackets and tie rods, I designed these on CAD and had them made up from 316 Stainless and tested fittings. These follow the load path much more directly.


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Old 01-08-2017, 08:33 AM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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After cutting access holes which will be covered by watertight inspection hatches, I laminated the inner moulding to the hull around the area where the tie rods and knee are going to be fitted with 3-4 lays of XE600 cloth and epoxy resin. This should help transfer any loads that the inner skin might see, I have also applied 2 X XE1200 Quadraxial running as far down the hull skin as I can, these also tie the bottom of the inner tray to the hull. The knee will be bonded and overlaminated on the centreline of this, the tie rod bolts will pass either side of the knee.

You can see the joint right up forward and the 2X1200 strips here, peel ply has yet to be removed, the access was through a 8" and 5" hole so was quite tricky



Looking aft you can see the shelf pocket, this has been bonded to the hull with laminate, the knee will be bonded and laminated up against it.

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  #11  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:40 PM
bruceb bruceb is offline
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stay braces

Steve, it looks as if you have made good job of repairing your Jag. Before you get into any more extensive projects on it, take a look at the mods the Cat 22 racers are making on their boats. We have an active fleet at my sailing club, they use them hard, and have come up with some simple but effective improvements that are well tested. The racers use the oldest boats they can find as they are the lightest, get them into competitive condition, and sail them hard. Their mods work! You don't have to re-invent the wheel
As a dealer in the late 80's, I imported several Jag 22/23's and 25's and also sold a lot of Cat 22's. The Jags were definitely different than our US built Catalina's, and I got the sense they were put together a little better than the local product. Enjoy your boat
Also, I happened to help a friend drop the swing keel out of his 1977 cat 22 last week. Fairly easy job. If you have the swing keel version I would suggest dropping yours if you haven't. There are things that wear that need attention every so often.
B
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2017, 02:25 AM
Stevext Stevext is offline
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Hi Bruce

Yes I'm guilty as charged when it comes to reinventing the wheel, I just couldn't let a problem like this go untouched as it seemed fundamentally wrong. I'll try and look up your fleet as would love to see what they've done to theirs. The knee is now bonded into the port side and the whole area seems absolutely rock solid compared to before.

Photos to follow

Regards

Steve
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