ISAF vs KITE Sailing

Apparently, the ISAF has decided to withhold recognition of any record established by a boat using a kite for power.
To me this is simply unacceptable and a gross overreach by ISAF. Kites have been a part of speed sailing events for years.
It seems to me that if they can take this kind of action with kites why couldn't they just arbtrarily ban hydrofoils like the ones in the Moth Class or Neil Pryde's foiling windsurfer or canting keels or?
If anyone has any insight as to why this is being done and the precedent it sets I would be most interested to hear it...

[Tim B]

is there a clause that states something along the lines of "The power-producing element must be rigidly attatched to the boat"?
I don't know, but if there is, then it would seem that a kite is not "rigidly attatched" and therefore does not count.

also, think about the design challenge. the request is completely different from a normal rig.

Tim B.

Tim, spinnakers are not rigidly attached. But there is a more important point: kites have been involved in speed sailing for years so why change the rule now?
Why should the ISAF issue a "top down" ruling that impacts what kind of boat sailors can sail? Or what kind of sail they can use? Remember, this ruling effectively bans kites from being used in speed sailing-an area that has traditionally been anything goes. To me it seems that they go way too far and set a precedent that could be applied to other technologies like hydrofoils.
To arbitrarily remove a promising speed saling technology from speed record contention(after years and years) will just diminsh the value of future speed records since kites WILL be sailed and they WILL get fast enough to be in contention for records that the ISAF says they will not be recognized for . When that happens the ISAF recognized record will be meaningless.
Nobody interested in the development of sailing technology should fail to recognize the potential implications of this kind of overbearing bureacracy...

[Kiteship]

Originally Posted by Tim B

is there a clause that states something along the lines of "The power-producing element must be rigidly attatched to the boat"?
I don't know, but if there is, then it would seem that a kite is not "rigidly attatched" and therefore does not count.

also, think about the design challenge. the request is completely different from a normal rig.

Tim B.

In response to your question, Tim; yes, kite-powered craft are currently allowed in speed sailing, have been allowed--and encouraged--since at least 1977. Dozens of kiteboats have participated over the years; one held the C-class world record for a number of years. Second, kite sail powered boats are numerous; there are approximately 150,000 kitesurfers in the world today and dozens of kite-powered "proper" boats. Have a look at our website for what's going on in mainstream sailing and kites: http://www.kiteship.com

Please also note that the ISAF ban does not just effect flat water, extreme speed attempts, but encompasses ALL of the offshore and inshore point-to-point timed record events that the WSSRC coordinates (165 different point-to-point, 24-hr timed, round-world, etc, etc, at last count)

Yours,

Dave Culp

[usa2]

not to sound somewhat negative about kites or anything, but arent most speed sailing records set with the apparent wind forward of the beam while kites are most efficient welll off the wind? If that is true, then a boat would only be able to set a record if it could sail as fast as the wind, and the wind was blowing at least 45 knots. Also, in regards to the rule thing, does anyone know if there is a clause about sails having to be set from the mast? The way i interpreted it(forgive me if i am incorrect), one of the kite's advantages is that it isnt attached to the mast, which eliminates the danger of a knockdown. Maybe they dont think it is technically a sail, if its just flying out in front of the boat. Spinnakers are what you could call "rigidly" attached- at the top of the mast, and at the end of the pole. kites are less attached than a conventional spinnaker, and with todays boats all starting to use A-sails, most free flying sails are becoming slow. with an A-sail, your still able to sail faster than the wind. Is it possible to exceed the wind speed with a kite?

[daveculp]

Usa2;

Your last question should have been your first. ;-)

Yes, kite boats are quite capable of sailing faster than the wind--much fasterr. Kiteboats can sail on any courses that "real" sailboats can sail. Kite buggies (on land) sail at 3-5 times windspeed, just like landsailers. In the only engineering drawing in his 1827 book "Aeropleustic Art" Briton George Popcock clearly described how to sail upwind. (Yes, that was 1827; 178 years ago). As I said in my earlier post, kites are sails, have been so defined by the rulesmakers for many, many years. Turn your logic around and look at it; what makes mast-attached sails more "real" than free-flying sails? Because they came first? Didn't the stone age come before the iron age? Did that make it better?

This isn't theoretical stuff; kitesailing is a mature, long-lived existing industry. Which is why this move by ISAF is so puzzling, and seemingly unfair. In actual fact, kite sailed boats are faster, stabler and safer than any masted sail boat (go to my web site for the reasons why, if you like)

Dave Culp
www.kiteship.com

[Andy P]

And if you look at illustrations of early (19th c ) ice sailors, they strapped 'real' kites to their backs, and gone skating/sailing.

[cyclops]

I think the ISAF is putting it's foot down because they accurately see the end of conventional sail boats racing and holding records. It sounds as if a kite boat would blow the sails off a ROUND THE WORLD RACE conventional sail boat. You can not expect them to foot the bills of races and not win.

[cyclops]

The same conditions are in effect for turbine powered boats, cars or airplanes. You can not find race classes for them.

[SuperPiper]

I wonder what the ISAF was thinking. . .

If the land speed record was set by a jet propelled car, could a person wonder if it was really an air speed record set very close to the ground? Does a kite boat start to function more like a plane than a boat? If so, then all the records have already been broken by airborne craft . . .

Rather than guessing, does anyone know the rationale used in setting the rule?

[FAST FRED]

Speed Shmeed ,
the Kite could be a far better "get home' than all the current engineering nightmares on small cruising boats ,
wing engines & foulding props, gensets with Hyd pumps , chain drive , belt drive.

FAsT FRED

[Andy P]

skate sailors :

http://home.swipnet.se/ansar/s.html

from old kites to modern wings!

[CT 249]

Dave re "In actual fact, kite sailed boats are faster, stabler and safer than any masted sail boat (go to my web site for the reasons why, if you like)"

Cogito? 18s? speed boards? G Class?????????????

[SailDesign]

Well, I guess it's no use entering races with a square-rigged boat anymore, then, since they are just multiple kites on VERY short strings tied to masts.

Sad....

[D'ARTOIS]

With a kite you don't need the canting keel - you don't need a keel either
- new era of boatdesign?