IOR 1 Ton 'Granny Apple'

[TasDan]

Hi guys,

I am currently sailing on the Farr 1 tonner "Granny Apple" in Tasmania. We initially thought her to be a Farr 37, but have since found out otherwise. I have read a lot on here about IOR designs and heard mention of Granny Apple once before, so I wonder if anyone knows anything about her ?

Why was she built? Was she successful ? How was she originally rigged ?

The previous owner told us she was intended for the Melbourne - Osaka 2 handed race, but never competed. who knows ?!

Regards

Dan

[spudnpea]

May be the boat built late 70's by Brian Wall (granny) in Christchurch and sailed in Lyttelton NZ

[TasDan]

Yes that sounds right - designed by Farr in '77 and built in NZ is all we really know about her.

[CT 249]

I think she was a slightly modified Farr design 064, a Red Lion/Jenny H/Smir Noff Agen/Hecate sister. Very much an IOR One Ton design rather than an Osaka racer!

Hecate was a 1977 Tassie boat that became Piccolo (III), I think. Her owner, Charles Davies, was one of the crew that was tragically lost in his next boat, Charlestown, on the way to the 1979 Sydney Hobart start, but there must be some other ex-Hecaters around Hobart who would know about the design 064s.

Smir Noff Agen became Vanguard then Scallywag and won the '82 Hobart. Red Lion,of course, won the One Ton World Champs from a couple of her sisters. These were one of the great designs of their day until they were hit by changes to the IOR (although even then they could still win in the right conditions, as Scallywag demonstrated).

More info at http://www.farrdesign.com/064.htm

BTW Brian "Granny" Wall was one of the leading minds involved in winning two "world" 18 Foot Skiff titles, aboard "Intrigue".

Geoff Stagg, one of Bruce Farr's right-hand men for many years, was involved with Granny Apple at one time; he should be easy to track down through Farr and doesn't mind a chat at times.

Granny Apple did the '79 Southern Cross Cup for one of the two NZ teams but was only a moderate performer. That was a light-wind year but some comparable boats (i.e. boats and designs that had been beaten by GA's sisterships) did well; don't know what happened to GA.

The boat is clearly quicker than the Farr 1104s like Invincible and Hot Prospect, being a newer, longer, racier update from the same designer. There was an old thread on Sailing Anarchy, with pics, about one of her sisters being rebuilt in FNQ or NT. Also Paul B or someone had some pics of Jenny H (renamed Scalawag IIRC, not Scallywag which is her Oz sister) as refitted and racing in Southern California; I think it's here in the IOR quarter and half tonners thread.

Nice boat!

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CT 249

I think she was a slightly modified Farr design 064, a Red Lion/Jenny H/Smir Noff Agen/Hecate sister. Very much an IOR One Ton design rather than an Osaka racer!

Also Paul B or someone had some pics of Jenny H (renamed Scalawag IIRC, not Scallywag which is her Oz sister) as refitted and racing in Southern California; I think it's here in the IOR quarter and half tonners thread.

The Farr site seems to indicate it was a Design 61, which is in the same family as the D62, 63, 64, and 66 boats from the 1977 OTC. I don't know what the significant differences are in the designs, other than I believe Jumpa was a bit shorter with a bigger rig.

66 - 1977 1 Ton MR JUMPA
64 - 1977 1 Ton RED LION
63 - 1977 1 Ton SMIRNOFFAGEN
62 - 1977 1 Ton JENNY H
61 - 1977 1 Ton GRANNY APPLE


If it wasn't launched until 1979 it would have been a problem, since the rule changes of 1978 really hurt the ratings of those boats.

I did post a photo of the old Jenny H on the Quarter Ton thread, and also Red Lion and Mr. Jumpa. Some other photos of Wild Turkey are there as well. I think that one might have been a Design 59 version, the less radical keelboat for that year.

It would be nice to see some photos of the old boat posted, if you get a chance.

[TasDan]

Originally Posted by CT 249

The boat is clearly quicker than the Farr 1104s like Invincible and Hot Prospect, being a newer, longer, racier update from the same designer. There was an old thread on Sailing Anarchy, with pics, about one of her sisters being rebuilt in FNQ or NT. Also Paul B or someone had some pics of Jenny H (renamed Scalawag IIRC, not Scallywag which is her Oz sister) as refitted and racing in Southern California; I think it's here in the IOR quarter and half tonners thread.

Nice boat!

She sure is faster than Hot Prospect, we beat them regularly ;-)


I dont think the hull has been modified, but Im guessing the small bulb on the bottom of the keel would not have been IOR compliant considering the keel length constraint.

She currently runs masthead and 3/4 Asymetricals on a retractable bowsprit, which the previous owner told us was how she had always been - that I doubt too now!
I should add that he also 'refitted' the boat with masthead & 3/4 symetricals too.

[TasDan]

Originally Posted by Paul B

The Farr site seems to indicate it was a Design 61, which is in the same family as the D62, 63, 64, and 66 boats from the 1977 OTC. I don't know what the significant differences are in the designs, other than I believe Jumpa was a bit shorter with a bigger rig.

66 - 1977 1 Ton MR JUMPA
64 - 1977 1 Ton RED LION
63 - 1977 1 Ton SMIRNOFFAGEN
62 - 1977 1 Ton JENNY H
61 - 1977 1 Ton GRANNY APPLE


If it wasn't launched until 1979 it would have been a problem, since the rule changes of 1978 really hurt the ratings of those boats.

I did post a photo of the old Jenny H on the Quarter Ton thread, and also Red Lion and Mr. Jumpa. Some other photos of Wild Turkey are there as well. I think that one might have been a Design 59 version, the less radical keelboat for that year.

It would be nice to see some photos of the old boat posted, if you get a chance.

I have a feeling that she was launched in '79 - i'll check the plaque next time i'm onboard.

She has a very powerful rig these days, although I know it has been replaced (- the previous owner carried the masthead assy in a little too much wind and watched the mast overtake the boat) the previous rig was 3/4 with runners, but now we have 3/4 with swept back spreaders.

She loves to be hard on the breeze, but really isnt that quick downwind, however I read that the IOR boats of the 70's really werent. Incidentally, the 1104 Hot Prospect that we race against is claimed (from a credible source) to have reached high teens - low twenties downwind offshore, I dont think there is much chance of the Granny beating that!

Attached is a moderately bad pic off my phone from a few weeks ago when we replaced the windows and painted the cabin top.

[TasDan]

http://www.richardbennett.com.au/lig...mageField.y=15

a few more pics showing the BIG assy...


and a few of her in her element: http://www.richardbennett.com.au/lig...rt2009&start=0

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by TasDan

I dont think the hull has been modified, but Im guessing the small bulb on the bottom of the keel would not have been IOR compliant considering the keel length constraint.

Was GA always a keel boat, or was she originally a lifting centerboarder like Red Lion, Jumpa, Smirnoff, Hecate, and Jenny H?

She would not have had a bulb in 1979.

Originally Posted by TasDan

She currently runs masthead and 3/4 Asymetricals on a retractable bowsprit, which the previous owner told us was how she had always been - that I doubt too now!
I should add that he also 'refitted' the boat with masthead & 3/4 symetricals too.

She would not have had a bow pole or assymetricals in 1979. "Single Luffed Spinnakers" were illegal under IOR.

Originally Posted by TasDan

I have a feeling that she was launched in '79 - i'll check the plaque next time i'm onboard.

I wonder if this was a home build that took a lot longer than estimated to complete? The rating of Mr. Jumpa went from 27.5 to 29.0 under the rules change of 1978. They could pin the board down and get some of that back, but not most of it.

Originally Posted by TasDan

She has a very powerful rig these days, although I know it has been replaced (- the previous owner carried the masthead assy in a little too much wind and watched the mast overtake the boat) the previous rig was 3/4 with runners, but now we have 3/4 with swept back spreaders.

The original rigs in these boats was pretty anemic. The boats were 38 feet long, and they had an "I" dimension of about 38 feet.

Originally Posted by TasDan

She loves to be hard on the breeze, but really isnt that quick downwind, however I read that the IOR boats of the 70's really werent. Incidentally, the 1104 Hot Prospect that we race against is claimed (from a credible source) to have reached high teens - low twenties downwind offshore, I dont think there is much chance of the Granny beating that!

I know these boats were capable of speeds in the low 20s, but you had to be brave, raise the board, and hang on.

[TasDan]

I know she was built by " Wall, CH CH" which I can only assume to be Brian Wall.

There is no evidence of a board case, especially seeing as the mast is keel stepped and the motor is on top of the keel too.

Hot Prospect (the 1104 clocked at low 20's) is and always has been a keel boat.

The mast is most definitely more than 37ft high ! I think the masthead kite hoist is about 14m (whatever that is in ft...)

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by TasDan

I know she was built by " Wall, CH CH" which I can only assume to be Brian Wall.

There is no evidence of a board case, especially seeing as the mast is keel stepped and the motor is on top of the keel too.

Hot Prospect (the 1104 clocked at low 20's) is and always has been a keel boat.

The mast is most definitely more than 37ft high ! I think the masthead kite hoist is about 14m (whatever that is in ft...)

I looked at the old Farr catalog I have and it specifically says that Design 64 was also available as Design 61 - The Keelboat Version. So it seems correct that GA would have been a keelboat from birth.

The "I" dimension is not the top of the mast, it is the height of the forestay. So if your masthead kites are 14m it makes sense that your "I" is around 11.5m (or about 38 feet).

[mojounwin]

Is Invincible still racing down there? Have been told by those guys they have hit over mid 20's downwind. Would have been a scary ride on an 1104.

Cheers
Mojo

[TasDan]

Originally Posted by mojounwin

Is Invincible still racing down there? Have been told by those guys they have hit over mid 20's downwind. Would have been a scary ride on an 1104.

Cheers
Mojo

I think she is still racing, we sail up at Geilston Bay and she is a Bellerive boat so I'm not fully sure. And yes, one hell of a ride !