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[mistral]

i'm working on Pc too but, as I'm working, i think i'll have to shut down mozilla and concentrate on my work :-(((

mistral

[pkoken]

Mighetto wrote:

where the run to Catalina Island (an ocean crossing in my book)

Sorry Frank, having made the journey back & forth, around & sideways to Catalina island I can say two things...

#1 - Depending on your point of departure and sea conditions it's a 20 mile jaunt across a channel. For me sailing from Dana Point it was closer to double that.

#2 - I have seen a lot of strange and innapropriate craft at Two Harbors & Avalon, but never have I seen a Mac26x~ Hobie cats? Yes. Catalina 22? Yes. West Wight Potter? Yes. Sailboarders in Avalon? Yes. Mac26x No.

If a Mac26X made it to the island, I am willing to bet it was by motoring across in the early morning calm seas (something a powerboat is good at).

My final point is that if you believe sailing to Catalina Island is an ocean crossing you are beyond crack-smoking and well into general insanity. Please post your address so I may dispatch the nice men with the 'special' Mighetto jacket for you.

[mighetto]

pkoken

Sorry Frank, having made the journey back & forth, around & sideways to Catalina island I can say two things...

#1 - Depending on your point of departure and sea conditions it's a 20 mile jaunt across a channel. For me sailing from Dana Point it was closer to double that.

Pillipe,you have no reason to apologize. I have been to Catalina a half a dozen or more times myself and have yet to spot any kind of MacGregor. Now you are not telling me you haven't seen Mac26x vessels at Dana Point are you? I have seen several there. Where do they go - Catalina Island is the answer. The manufacturer has made a big deal out of making that a destination for these vessels.

"Many areas have those wonderful sailing spots that are just out of reach! Here in Southern California a favorite spot is Catalina, an island about 25 miles off the coast. Getting there and back has always taken most of a weekend. You can be sure that sailors will use the dual nature of the 26x (motor and sail) to shorten the distance. After a short, fast commute across the channel in their power cruiser, they can spend the weekend sailing from cove to cove and anchoring for the night. Maybe they will even stay Sunday night and speed back at dawn on Monday. You can't do that in a conventional sailboat. If you have a favored place that is just out of reach for a conventional sailboat, consider the 26x."

#2 - I have seen a lot of strange and innapropriate craft at Two Harbors & Avalon, but never have I seen a Mac26x~ Hobie cats? Yes. Catalina 22? Yes. West Wight Potter? Yes. Sailboarders in Avalon? Yes. Mac26x No.

There was a nice Catalina 22 photo at Avalon last year. Looked very cool. A fellow on the Mac boards claimed to have taken a personal water craft there. Was never able to confirm that they have the range for that.

If a Mac26X made it to the island, I am willing to bet it was by motoring across in the early morning calm seas (something a powerboat is good at).

Perhaps. You like to think of this boat as a power boat. But The hull and constuction are pure sail boat and they certainly can plug along with the Catalinas and Potters in afternoon blistering winds (did you not see the photo). But lets face it, the boat can not carry the fuel a power boat does. The designer didn't make a bayliner power boat here. The motor is the primary safety feature and the range of the vessel under engine power alone just long enough to avoid hazards predicted by weather reports. But the engine is still the secondary power source.

My final point is that if you believe sailing to Catalina Island is an ocean crossing you are beyond crack-smoking and well into general insanity. Please post your address so I may dispatch the nice men with the 'special' Mighetto jacket for you.

I have seen that to-Catalina stretch of water in a state I would wish no small boat in. The crossing is hazardous because in shallow water winds can whip up waves that are steep. The Mac26x was made to handle that if she has to. Every Island off the coast of California has been visited by a Mac26x. They are that worthy. In any case. Travel agents call a trip from Miami to the Bahamas an ocean crossing. I like my special jacket in black not white. Send the nice men with smilies and

Now tell me this isn't fun. Did you really let go of a Catalina 27? I wouldn't have done that.

[frankofile]

Originally Posted by pkoken

Mighetto wrote: where the run to Catalina Island (an ocean crossing in my book)

Sorry Frank, having made the journey back & forth, around & sideways to Catalina island I can say two things...

You can understand how Frankie got this wrong though. I mean, it is in the ocean with swells and large sea creatures and all, and on a hazy day you can be out of sight of land for a large portion of the trip... pretty scary if you don't know wtf you are doing. Not to mention all the pleasure, commercial, and military shipping traffic you've got to watch for and dodge around!

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by frankofile

You can understand how Frankie got this wrong though. I mean, it is in the ocean with swells and large sea creatures and all, and on a hazy day you can be out of sight of land for a large portion of the trip... pretty scary if you don't know wtf you are doing. Not to mention all the pleasure, commercial, and military shipping traffic you've got to watch for and dodge around!

Look blame Roger Macgregor for building OCEAN sailboats and nothing other. The facts of life are that global circumnavigators report having the most trouble off the coast of California. It is notorious. Granted, things are getting calmer past Santa Barbara going south. Ocean swells are no big deal in a small sail boat. It is boats that are larger that have trouble with them.

[frankofile]

Originally Posted by mighetto

The facts of life are that global circumnavigators report having the most trouble off the coast of California.

Put down the crack pipe Frankie. Idiot.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by frankofile

Put down the crack pipe Frankie. Idiot.

I am burning rubber and laughing gas - just like starshipone. Doesn't mean I am wrong. This is breakthrough technology we are chatting about. That it could appear simplistic, even idiotic, is the halmark of sound engineering.

Hey I am having way to much fun. Kewl it please! ROTFLMAO.

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

The success of the Mac26x

What success? It is out of production!

Originally Posted by mighetto

and failure of the TP52

What failure? Almost everybody agrees that the TP52s are the most exiting thing that has happened in sailboat racing during the last couple of years. Almost all of the rock stars of sailing have raced them and loved it. Even Russell Coutts plans to sail on one this year!

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

I tend to think that it was recognition of the revolution being supported by Macgregor Yachts in the form of the Mac26x that got the Sailing Magazine writers who present the hall of fame award to give Roger the award for the Mac25.

Yes of course - why didn't I see this before! They wanted to recognize Roger MacGregor for the Mac26x, so they presented him with an award for the Mac25. That makes sense!

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

The facts of life are that global circumnavigators report having the most trouble off the coast of California. It is notorious.

And those who might be just a little afraid of the Southern Ocean are just whining kids who know nothing!

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Remember that the halt in production of the X was not known until recently to have been related to Jim Teeters.

Frank, I ask you again: Who "knows" about this?

[pkoken]

Originally Posted by sorenfdk

And those who might be just a little afraid of the Southern Ocean are just whining kids who know nothing!

Perhaps they wouldn't be scared if they were sailing a Mac26x... In any case, regardless of your boat~ Cape Horn has nothing on Point Conception and the DEADLY COAST OF CALIFORNIA!!!

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by pkoken

Perhaps they wouldn't be scared if they were sailing a Mac26x

No, they'd be too stupid to be scared!

[mighetto]

Søren Flening

I don't understand your question? Sorry. Who could be those who have read my stuff. Let me give you this to chomp on. Consider it halfed baked but please consider it.

A former Alaska Airline aircraft maintenance engineer and Mac26x owner has been helping me with this. He has been doing work on Mac26x vessels so they will support larger outboards. Folks want that for reasons I can not understand. Let me start with how MacGregor Yachts taught us to think of stability as it relates to the Mac26x.

The notion presented is of one of those punching toys. You know the clowns that you punch and they right themselves. That is how we are to think of stability on the Mac26x. I do not own such a toy but I do have a beach ball and I have run this experiment in the hot tub. If I tape a weight, even a small one, to the bottom, and turn the ball upside down it will always right itself - even with the jets of the hot tub turned full up.

So the report that the Mac26x righted herself in a test pool when plunked upside down doesn't surprise me. But this notion is met with disbelief by those trained by US Sailing. The centerboard even retracted is not going to change the result. This has to do with the shape of the cabin top. It isn't flat enough to provide inverted stability. As long as the boat has the weight of the ballast tank structure and yes even motor where it is she is going to right her self even without water ballast. Unlike lesser designs, the Mac26x has not one but two compression poles. So having the deck salon ripped off by sea action doesn't appear to be a possibility.

So how does the idiotic training of MacGregor Yachts compare to the confused consensus of naval architects and sailboat designers?

Here we are to recognize that torque called the righting moment (RM) is related to the boat's displacement. This is definitional. The displacement multiplied by the horizontal distance between the Center of Gravity (CG) and the center of buoyancy (CB) is the definition of righting moment. That horizontal distance is called the righting arm (CZ).

With that recognition, we are to see that the more displacement the greater the righting moment. Then we must accept the notion that a boat's heeling angle can be pulled past 90 degrees.

Eventually as the boat is pushed past 90 degrees, the CG and CB will come into vertical alignment as they are when the boat is at rest right side up. This is the point where the righting moment is zero and it is called the Limit of Positive Stability (LPS).

Now comes the assumption: Everyone assumes that once the LPS is reached the boat will invert and stay that way until wind or wave action push it right way up. But this isn't true with the most seaworthy of shapes, those being the sphere and the log. It is only true with shapes that have until recently been sailboat shapes. The shape of the top deck of the Mac26x and Mac26m makes that assumption incorrect.

It is similar to when 2 + 2 no longer equals 4 because we are no longer working in base 10.

All those nice curves showing the angle in degrees against the righting arm suddenly lose their predictive value. We can no longer predict just from math when a sailboat will invert and stay that way or even that it ever will.

It takes 120 lbs at the top of the jib to hold a Mac26x on its side with the mast parallel to the water. Unballasted with sails up, it does not appear that the Mac26x can turn turtle. When plopped upside down with no sails she rights herself. Completely filled with water she rights her self and can even be sailed (though not fast).

Of course there is still capsize risk. In sufficient sea, all boats can capsize. Nonetheless, this vessel, when capsized floats and the hatches are positioned that except by wave and wake action they can be left open without water entering the interior. That would be operator error however. I really want to see the Teeters video now. The conclusion I come to is that you can get stability (the ability to stay right side up) by adding displacement to a traditional looking sailboat, or you can get stability with additional flotation (buoyancy) on a boat shaped like a Mac26x or m. CG or CB this is the question. With CB you get the benefit of boats that when swamped may not sink as well as a faster sailboat when there is light wind.

[frankofile]

Originally Posted by mighetto

The notion presented is of one of those punching toys. You know the clowns that you punch and they right themselves.

That's how I think of you, but I'd hardly call you stable.