I want to build a high performance single handed skiff...

[someguy]

I want to design and build a really high performance single handed skiff. Main and chute only. No jib. Trapeze and rack. Speed and handling important. Sailor weight is 80 Kg. Would be nice to take a small passenger from time to time. (<60 Kg)

Where do I start ?

Is there any value to buying existing parts (hulls, rigs, etc.) and playing around first ?

At this point I am building only for myself and my own sailing pleasure.

[someguy]

Just to clarify, I am wanting a dingy, something along the lines of a Musto Performance Skiff. As small and as light as possible. Very fast though. That sort of thing.

[dimitarp]

Hi,
Do you look for a full plan for a single skiff?

[someguy]

I've never seen a plan for a high performance skiff. Where would I find one ?

[dimitarp]

I have a design firm for wind yachts

[someguy]

I'd like to do the design myself.

[frosh]

Hi Someguy of somewhere; tell us how much experience you have in boat building/designing and where you are located. It will make it easier for us to give you sensible advice.
Also is the budget limited, as buying an existing dinghy and making a few small changes might be the easiest quickest and probably cheapest option.
See Sailing Anarchy Forums for many threads along this line. For instance:
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...howtopic=37180

S & S- heres another Dinghy Anarchy topic that should interest you:
Need a new Single Hander - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...d=789672&st=0&
You should also look into the Swift Solo which is real close in performance to the Musto Skiff but can be built from plans. In their first head to head meeting a few weeks ago the Musto edged out the Solo.
If you want to DESIGN a boat within a class and want the fastest boat possible for the least money and are willing to ditch the spinnaker the Moth is a logical choice.
Much about building the Moth and Solo on DA....

[someguy]

I've never built a boat from scratch and not sure if I want to. I've done some repairs using the West products.

I'm an experienced sailor. I lurk on the SA forum.

Budget ? Less than $5K. I think the MPS is over priced but otherwise pretty good, at $10K

I live in the NW USA.

The Swift has a Jib, so its out. I don't want a jib.

What about doing something with a Laser II hull ? Put racks on it. Different rig, maybe from a 49er or ?

I think you have too low a budget for doing what you say you want to. A foiler Moth you build from scratch with pro foils and a pro rig will cost between 6 and 7 grand and that is about as inexpensive as you can get unless you get rid of the foils and are willing to take a less sophisticated rig.
Now, modifying an older boat might just be your ticket but you're going to be pushing it even then with that budget. Do you want to race or just sail fast? How about a Contender turboed? I think there are some up your way-maybe old enough to be at a real good price. But beware any power-up mods you make to an existing hull/rig will affect it structurally and be almost as costly as doing it on a new hull.

[someguy]

I just want to have fun sailing. Fast. I probably won't race it. Modifying an existing hull seems like a good thing to do. Which hull ? I14, Laser, Laser II ? My neighbor has an old Laser hull that seems sound...

[CT 249]

Something that designers (and practical experience) demonstrates to be a major problem is volume; a two-man boat is normally too bulky singlehanded, even if it's a nice light hull. Tasars for example are dogs upwind singlehanded; they are floating on the wrong waterline etc.

Re the I-14. Have you seen the Bucko? Bucko Mk 1 came from a 14 Foot Skiff mould; Chris the builder/skipper was an Open 14 world champ. However, it's probably fair to say that it's not as fast as the (non foiler) Moth or the International Canoe even with the racks and kite. That seems to illustrate (once again) that a singlehander has to have a fairly small hull to be really quick (due to wave impact drag etc).

The L2 (or the modified UK version, the L3000) is a fairly slender hull and it has been sailed singlehanded I think. Have you asked the guys from the UK classes? It's a heavy hull and sailed with kite and jib even in singlehanded mode, if I recall, but off the top of my head I think it may go well singlehanded. Frank Bethwaite said the L2 was designed to carry 125kg of crew weight, and to have a 68kg hull; I think they ended up a lot heavier, but the hull volume is the problem, perhaps.

Even a much smaller and finer two-hander hull is not incredibly quick; the NS14 singlehander, which uses the two-person hull, is too big according to one of the designers and it certainly doesn't go as quickly as you'd expect a nice 14er to go.

Did you see Steve Clark's post on modifying a Laser? It's almost a smaller and lighter Contender in shape. I've seen and heard of kids and lightweights who put Canoe-style sliding seats onto a Laser and it does seem to fire it up quite well. Surely it wold still not be a skiff-type performer overall, though.

There have been Contenders fitted with racks, big rigs and assys. Jo Rosler's version inspired the Musto Performance Skiff, but he took off the racks as they got in the way and dragged as the hull is so low.

For skiff-type performance the other way to go is an International Canoe. The development rules allow you to have a lighter hull (60kg rigged) and no jib. A Lust Puppet hard-chine hull is a good performer. Even the UK MPS and RS700 guys admit the Canoe with assymetric is quicker in the middle range of windspeeds than their boats, with the edge in light winds going to the lighter skiffs and the edge in a breeze going to whoever stays upright!

[someguy]

Re the I-14. Have you seen the Bucko? Bucko Mk 1 came from a 14 Foot Skiff mould; Chris the builder/skipper was an Open 14 world champ. However, it's probably fair to say that it's not as fast as the (non foiler) Moth or the International Canoe even with the racks and kite. That seems to illustrate (once again) that a singlehander has to have a fairly small hull to be really quick (due to wave impact drag etc).

Tell me more about the Bucko. Meanwhile I'll google it.

The L2 (or the modified UK version, the L3000) is a fairly slender hull and it has been sailed singlehanded I think. Have you asked the guys from the UK classes? It's a heavy hull and sailed with kite and jib even in singlehanded mode, if I recall, but off the top of my head I think it may go well singlehanded. Frank Bethwaite said the L2 was designed to carry 125kg of crew weight, and to have a 68kg hull; I think they ended up a lot heavier, but the hull volume is the problem, perhaps.

I'll look into it.

Even a much smaller and finer two-hander hull is not incredibly quick; the NS14 singlehander, which uses the two-person hull, is too big according to one of the designers and it certainly doesn't go as quickly as you'd expect a nice 14er to go.

Interesting information.

Did you see Steve Clark's post on modifying a Laser? It's almost a smaller and lighter Contender in shape. I've seen and heard of kids and lightweights who put Canoe-style sliding seats onto a Laser and it does seem to fire it up quite well. Surely it wold still not be a skiff-type performer overall, though.

Where is Steve's post ?

There have been Contenders fitted with racks, big rigs and assys. Jo Rosler's version inspired the Musto Performance Skiff, but he took off the racks as they got in the way and dragged as the hull is so low.

Is this documented somewhere ?

For skiff-type performance the other way to go is an International Canoe. The development rules allow you to have a lighter hull (60kg rigged) and no jib. A Lust Puppet hard-chine hull is a good performer. Even the UK MPS and RS700 guys admit the Canoe with assymetric is quicker in the middle range of windspeeds than their boats, with the edge in light winds going to the lighter skiffs and the edge in a breeze going to whoever stays upright!

Steve Clark had a IC with a uni rig. What became of that. Was it just experimental or did it become a class ?

[CT 249]

1) http://www.bucko.com.au/news.htm

No new postings for a while. I haven't seen Bucko or the boat for some time. About 2 years ago we shared a course again, it seemed to go like stink (ie quickly) on some angles but my info is that it still is generally slower than a skinny Moth. I've raced it a few times in a (non spinnaker) Int. Canoe and never had many problems with it.

2)Some Laser and Laser 2 conversion info

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...29628&hl=Laser

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...34065&hl=Laser

3) PM me for a letter from Jo about his Contender.

4) The class is in the process of (probably) opening up the rules. There are two more uni-rigs being built at the moment.

[frosh]

Have you seen the pics of Phil Stevenson's almost completed stressed ply Development Canoe with a mainsail only. We don't know for sure yet but he might get enough performance from this to not really want to put a kite on it even if it was allowed by the rules. The budget you have probably is insufficient though. The link to the photos is:
http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/phi...cd.jpg&.src=ph