Forum organization idea

[CutOnce]

Perhaps this is a problem unique to me, but I have great difficulty with the unrestricted mixture of unbuilt fantasy designs and real boats built by real people.

Much of the discussion here is about never-to-be built "designs". This isn't a bad thing, but mixing these discussions into the topics "Sailboats" and "Multihulls" is insulting to the people who actually build, test and sail real boats within the limitations of budget, physics, water and wind. It is kind of like putting a hand picked fantasy league football team from a video game on equal media footing as a real team of real people.

My interests are clearly skewed towards real-world designers and builders and their experiences (both good and bad) and results. I don't need help dreaming about the future - I'm quite good at that - but what I hoped this site would do is allow me to learn from others and perhaps share my experiences as well.

Libraries would be useless if there was no distinction between fiction and non-fiction. I feel this website is much less valuable due to the same problem. I highly enjoy reading fictional stories, but I'd be really upset if authors of fiction presented their stories as fact.

I do see value in unrestricted, theoretical design discussion forums where new ideas and future concepts are discussed - but I think that is best managed in a clearly labeled forum group. Blue sky discussions should have their own place.

I'd like to hear what other people think, and perhaps if there are enough people with the same problem as I we could petition boatdesign.net to add a forum to separate the theoretical from practical. This would however depend on authors to be able to distinguish between the two - a serious challenge possibly.

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CutOnce

[michael pierzga]

But out of the " Dreamers" and "Schemers" and "what ifs" comes quite a bit of useful insight from many skilled people. The fact that many threads loose the plot is just the way forums go. I would say a bit more aggressive moderation would be nice. A few rude...in your face people around. But then again who am I to decide who is rude ? and how would a moderator sort it out ? Id say the overall Boat Design net is very good and very educational for it readers. Congratulations to Boatdesign net !

[Doug Lord]

I think that this forum is great because of the emphasis on boat design but also because of the tremendous help offered those who wish to build their design or someone elses design. The idea that some designs have been started on this forum and designed publically with the problems and solutions
discussed in depth is another great measure of the vibrancy of this forum.
People with ideas for a boat-from a new design to a modification of an existing boat- are free to ask questions and most knowledgeable people are more than willing to help.
This forum is a tremendous asset to anyone interested in any facet of design/building and is the best of its type on the internet. I'm gratefull that there is such a community of knowledgeble, helpful people that with few exceptions, are willing to share their work, their advice and their time with the rest of us.
Thanks, guys-and thanks Jeff!

[RHP]

The mixture of professional builders and designers and their amateur counterparts together with the great unwashed (like myself) is what makes this forum such an enjoyable community.

To make it otherwise would amount to censorship verging towards egoistic but thank goodness theres no one like that around here.

[CatBuilder]

I have to say I'm a fan of the mix, too.

I have learned as much from this forum about my real life boat building project as I would have in a 6-12 month course.

Big thanks to so many members here who helped me learn everything from epoxy selection all the way up to build methods and mold types.

I could have never even undertaken this project if it wasn't for this board and its members. Seriously.

PS: I start cutting out female molds tomorrow!!

[Submarine Tom]

Good point. How about a compromise and have a catagory distinction on each thread of theoretical or actual.

But how would that work if you had a real problem and were looking at theoretical solutions.

I like your idea, but how would it be implemented?

-Tom

P.S. I'd much rather see spell-check!!!

[CutOnce]

Originally Posted by Submarine Tom

Good point. How about a compromise and have a catagory distinction on each thread of theoretical or actual.

But how would that work if you had a real problem and were looking at theoretical solutions.

I like your idea, but how would it be implemented?

-Tom

P.S. I'd much rather see spell-check!!!

Tom:

Spell check is more a function of your Internet browser, not boatdesign.net. I use Firefox, and it incorporates spell checking on every site I visit and post to. All major browsers have this feature available as either a built-in feature or plug-in option. Internet Explorer, Safari, Opera etc all have this feature available.

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CutOnce

[terhohalme]

There is no practice without theory or knowledge behind it. There is no theory without practical tests or experiments. Without dreams or blue sky thinking many innovations could never come true.

You still want to build log rafts by stone axes? Without high routes of intention and without countless mistakes that would be our reality...

I have built and designed several real boats, few good ones and still dreaming better solutions.

[cardsinplay]

Originally Posted by CutOnce

Perhaps this is a problem unique to me, but I have great difficulty with the unrestricted mixture of unbuilt fantasy designs and real boats built by real people.

Note that unbuilt fantasy designs are also created by real people. Other than that, I totally agree with your premise and encourage a separate division for boats that are in the proposal stage and have not had their initial splash.

Within a designated area, small matters such as ascribing performance behaviors in the present tense, well before the boat has seen any, on the water, testing can be filtered-out. Similarly, the fanciful can find their true voice in the abstract without being hustled about as if they are about to spring forth on the sailing community as a real endeavor.

I like your take Cut, and support the creation of a zone where anything in the proposal stage is fine. It would seem to me that this would allow for the room needed to actually grow the idea without trying to play it off as a boat that lives and breathes in the physical world. Discussions can then be aimed at the what-if aspects, rather than the, "dude, that's never gonna fly" aspects of the real world crucible.

I'd also like to see a process where once a boat design exits the abstract/proposal environment, that it is presented as an on-going document in word and photo, as it is shifted to the factual threads. In this fashion, it is there for all to see and from which they can learn.

If one is going to jump-off the proprietary cliff with their boat build, then I question the need to put any indication of it here in the first place. In short, open the doors and let the sun shine in on the process and make the work communally beneficial for all of the members.

[michael pierzga]

Well said..I agree...Great Idea !!

" I'd also like to see a process where once a boat design exits the abstract/proposal environment, that it is presented as an on-going document in word and photo, as it is shifted to the factual threads. In this fashion, it is there for all to see and from which they can learn.""

[frank smith]

I think it is a bad idea , this forum is loaded with good info and opinions. I have not read all the threads that I am interested in yet, and the mix although sometimes tiring can be fun.
I cant see the blue sky discussions not being invaded by certain members, but that adds a
kind of fun also. Btw, this is not a design school .

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by frank smith

Btw, this is not a design school .

Just in case that is directed at my post, it *is* a building school. (I bought my designs)

[frank smith]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Just in case that is directed at my post, it *is* a building school. (I bought my designs)

No, Sir

F

[gonzo]

All boats start as an idea. So do careers in the marine industry. What would be the standard to belong to each category?

[Doug Lord]

All designs start as an idea. Some designs have been presented here with a great deal of detail including thorough comparisons (with recognized ratios) to other existing boats. Calling such designs "blue sky" is insulting and far from reality. Talking just about an idea may be "blue sky" but taking it to the
actual design stage where the parameters of the idea become the dimensions of a boat which are then compared to existing boats is far beyond that and represents a viable work product that can stand with any other design.
Trying to add more "regulation" to these forums is a completely non-productive step to take. Encouraging more designers to present detailed analysis of their creations and encouraging them to show the applicable comparative ratios so that the design can be evaluated against known design parameters would be a far more constructive-and productive- way to proceed.