Foiling Kiteboards vs "normal" kiteboards

[Doug Lord]

This is a fascinating website about an even more fascinating race. Unfortunately, its all in French but it appears that maybe the foiling kiteboards
are beating normal kiteboards.
Please,if you are interested in this and speak French and can translate some of the video commentary I'd sure like to know what is being said.

Check this out: http://www.tropheesaintclair.com/

These kitefoils are NOT like the ones in the pictures below-they are much more refined. The Rush Randle Kitefoils below work extremely well in re-entering from a jump-but these(in the St. Clair video) appear to be optimized for speed-not jumping.

Why "kitefoiling"? questions answered by a manufacturer: http://carafinohydrofoilboard.com/in...ler=hydrofoils

[M&M Ovenden]

Really neat.

Here's for a quick French report on the race videos:

Most talk about foils are on the video for the first day, otherwise they didn't talk much about them, except to say the foils were generally leading. Turns out though that overall on the first day, the first and third position were on regular race boards. Julien Kerneur (1st position) comments his race saying that on the first two buoys the foils were leading but in running wind he managed to pass them. Herve Rousseau says how in the second step the foils were a revelation because in long distance cross wind turned out faster. Renaud Madier talks of the upwind step and his comment is that the foils lead on the upwind.
Over all most talk is about the race, not much mention of the foils except to say that's what they raced on and that it's the upcoming thing.

cheers,
Murielle

[Doug Lord]

Murielle, thank you very much for that! Most appreciated.

[Cheesy]

A point to note about foiling race boards is that they generally are not allowed, well to clarify there is a maximum foil (strut) length of 500mm which kind of rules out most of the foil boards.

Also Doug your comment about low aspect high drag boards on the other thread; this is true, kind of... for your twin tip generic kite board yes however the course facing boards are quite different, longer, wider, directional, no rocker in the back section and much longer high aspect fins, these boards are ridden flat relying on the foils not the edge of the board.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

A point to note about foiling race boards is that they generally are not allowed, well to clarify there is a maximum foil (strut) length of 500mm which kind of rules out most of the foil boards.

Also Doug your comment about low aspect high drag boards on the other thread; this is true, kind of... for your twin tip generic kite board yes however the course facing boards are quite different, longer, wider, directional, no rocker in the back section and much longer high aspect fins, these boards are ridden flat relying on the foils not the edge of the board.

===================
Thanks, Cheesy. There are dozens of kiteboarders here on a regular(wind) basis. I have yet to see a "modern" foilboard(like in the video above) or a board sailed as you described.
Whats interesting among other things is the use of a high aspect vertical fin ,as you describe , and the higher aspect lifting foils: foils either way are, apparently, making a difference.
Talked to Tinho Dornellas today and he is getting foil fever again to finish the development we already started on a windsurfer foilboard.

[Cheesy]

here is one version or a course board

http://twboards.blogspot.com/search?...&max-results=6

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

here is one version or a course board

http://twboards.blogspot.com/search?...&max-results=6

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Whats the theory behind the two fins on each side-small one forward?

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

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Whats the theory behind the two fins on each side-small one forward?

Im not sure, it is a relativly new concept (the course board as a whole), there are also one, two and three fin boards, there is a lot of devlopment going on. Im guessing it helps with tacking the board while distributing load between both feet. From what I have seen on the net (reasearch before I have a go at making one) the quad fins may be easier to ride off the wind, not nessarily faster though, they will have a drag penalty upwind. There is are even people trying them with various retracable fins etc. After I get a basic one built I want to have a go at engineering one to use a pair of retractable curved foils and a single fixed foil.

[ancient kayaker]

If I understand the translation correctly the foilers were passed by regular boards on a downwind leg. I can think of a number of causes, like insufficient space to tack downwind for example. Does anyone have more info?

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

If I understand the translation correctly the foilers were passed by regular boards on a downwind leg. I can think of a number of causes, like insufficient space to tack downwind for example. Does anyone have more info?

=========
More info would be good-"Cheesy's" original comments in the Hydroptere thread mentioned something about the foilers winning
most of the races.

Originally Posted by Cheesy

Maybe this direction will get the odd person more enthusiastic about kites... apparently foiling boards won most of the classes
http://www.tropheesaintclair.com/

[Cheesy]

The original forum;
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=2366523

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

If I understand the translation correctly the foilers were passed by regular boards on a downwind leg. I can think of a number of causes, like insufficient space to tack downwind for example. Does anyone have more info?

Not being critical here but im guessing you dont kite? Riding down wind is the least stable/hardest direction to go fast without crashing. So if you really wanted to analyse it I would say (really completely guessing) that the wind may have been light enough to favour the foil boards upwind but the non foiling boards would have been a lot more controllable down wind, hence faster

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

Not being critical here but im guessing you dont kite? ...

Yep! I was thinking sail not kite! No downwind tacking, right? Also no foiling downwind without a howling gale.

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

Yep! I was thinking sail not kite! No downwind tacking, right? Also no foiling downwind without a howling gale.

I have never seen a foil board in the flesh but I dont see why they wouldnt foil down wind, from what I have read it is in the lighter winds that the foil boards have a bigger advantage, both types will tack down wind, the deeper you sail the more unstable it is and the more uncomfortable with the kite pulling side on to the harness. One of the nice things about a kite is that as long as there is enough wind to make it fly it can generate its own apparent wind by doing figure 8s

[manuel Dalmau]

Kitefoils can beat a conventional course board fairly easy upwind on a lightwind course, and they go much deeper downwind than a course board that has to go higher to create apparent wind with a lot more dragg , the foil can do it by simply moving the kite, once they are riding the foil the have a much better VMG than a course board ( the foils limitation at the moment is that its top speed is much lower at the moment than a planning course board specially on a reach).