Finot Follies

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

The builder was widely advertising as a "Finot Approved " Builder. Finot did not object.

An "approved" builder most likely means that builder paid for the plans and pays royalties for the boats built. That is to differentiate them from a builder who pirates designs, not paying for plans or royalties for multiple builds.

Seems someone like you who claims to be in the business should know things like this.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Brent
I've seen you post this same information on a couple different forums,and its just like one of your designs..
You claim that with your design, anyone with a welder can build a sea worthy cruiser in his own back yard and do it for much less than any other design..
So lets say that john down the street gets a bug in his butt about cruising and has the crazy idea about building a steel boat in his back yard without any welding skills, or very little as you say..
And turns out the biggest piece of crap to float......
Does this boat and its bad workmanship fall back on you as the designer?

Not as long as I didn't recommend him to anyone . Approving is recommending.
Simplifying a boat drastically reduces the odds of it turning out to be a piece of crap.
When a skeg falls off, the boat usually sinks very quickly, too quickly to get a mayday off, and no guarantee if you did , anyone would hear or react to such a brief message. Thus there are no accurate statistics on the issue.
Two identical skegs, drawn by different designers, don't have differing odds of failing , depending on who the designer is. The sea doesn't work that way.

[dskira]

Originally Posted by Paul B

An "approved" builder most likely means that builder paid for the plans and pays royalties for the boats built. That is to differentiate them from a builder who pirates designs, not paying for plans or royalties for multiple builds.

Seems someone like you who claims to be in the business should know things like this.

Very good point. And very true.
Daniel

[CT 249]

Originally Posted by bradgarbiel

Hi, toyota has had a great reputation, so there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with their steering or brakes. So have you bought a Toyota lately?

Brakes

So.... a car company admits that there may possibly be a fault;
In contrast a boat designer does NOT admit that there is a fault - so there's a major difference there.

Some (disputed) reports say that the cars MAY have a problem that caused reported crashes;
In contrast, there is no report of an incident with the boat designs - so there's another major difference there.

The cars are current models, built by the design company.
In contrast, the boat is an old model that was not built by the design company - so there's a third major difference there.

Those taking actions about the cars include professors, the builder, major media groups, etc.
In contrast, those taking actions about the boats seem to include one rival boatbuilder with (as far as can be seen) no particular claim to fame - difference number 4.

I've got no dog in this fight, but the situation between Finot and Toyota seems to be totally different on every ground one can see. Except, perhaps, for the fact that there is some evidence that the claimed issue with Toyotas is complete bulldust, as was (I understand) the similar claimed issue with Audi some years ago.

[dskira]

Originally Posted by CT 249

. Except, perhaps, for the fact that there is some evidence that the claimed issue with Toyotas is complete bulldust, as was (I understand) the similar claimed issue with Audi some years ago.

Good point. I beleive it absolutly.
Same BS.
Daniel

[Brent Swain]

When a design flaw is likely to cause loss of life , one has a moral obligation to warn l people of it. Roberts designs, until we began the debate of his comments that skegs should be designed to fall off if they hit something, were all designed with flimsy skegs, just like the ones on the Finot boats.

[mala]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

I think the only way to ensure adequate strength of high aspecy ratio skegs is to run them right thru to the cockpit sole, giving them two points of support, with less steel and weight than adequate transverse stiffening would take.
Perhaps this would also be a good way to deal with the extremely high aspect ratio keels that keep falling of round the world racers. Run them right thru to the decks? There is certainly no lack of interior space in those big monsters, so that is no excuse for less overall structural integrity.

Brent is correct keels or skegs should not be just glued under a hull but brought through the hull to a certain height with the added advantage that this will prevent bilge water running into an open keel. That a keel rising to a cabin roof or a skeg rising to a cockpit sole will be more efficient than adequate transverse stiffening is questionable.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by mala

Brent is correct keels or skegs should not be just glued under a hull but brought through the hull to a certain height with the added advantage that this will prevent bilge water running into an open keel. That a keel rising to a cabin roof or a skeg rising to a cockpit sole will be more efficient than adequate transverse stiffening is questionable.

It simply takes less metal and effort to guarantee that the skeg or keel takes a bending load and does not produce a bending load on the hull skin, if you simply run them right thru. to the cockpit or decks in the case of a large boat with a high aspect ratio keel or skeg. It also often takes less metal to get a guaranteed connection. You can get the same with transverse menmbers, but it's far more complex and labour intensive.

[dskira]

Originally Posted by mala

Brent is correct keels or skegs should not be just glued under a hull but brought through the hull to a certain height with the added advantage that this will prevent bilge water running into an open keel. That a keel rising to a cabin roof or a skeg rising to a cockpit sole

.

What you talking about? Did you see one keel glued? Perhaps you do it, but your are the only one in the world.
A keel rising inside the boat as you descrive is quite simplistic, and can be dangerous. And to the cabin roof? And a skeg to the cockpit sole?
We have other way to design fortunatly.
As for I quote you:

will be more efficient than adequate transverse stiffening is questionable

It is pure delusion. you obviously have no clue of naval architecture, nor ship or boatbuilding.
Why you said things with certainty, but with no knoweldge of what you talking about?
Please introduce yourself, and tell us who you are, and where you live.
Thank you
Daniel

[dskira]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

When a design flaw is likely to cause loss of life , one has a moral obligation to warn l people of it.

I agree completly. You should be the first to have this moral obligation.
By publishing in the forum your plans, the stability calculation, the construction plan, structural design, rigging design, weight calculation, and all other plans and calculation paterning to boat and ship construction.

Daniel

[Brent Swain]

Ask any designer to give away his plans for free, to the world, and thus throw away his livelihood, and he will tell you to go to hell. So will I. Go to hell, Daniel!

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Ask any designer to give away his plans for free, to the world, and thus throw away his livelihood, and he will tell you to go to hell. So will I. Go to hell, Daniel!

Some calculations would be sufficient Brent! Not the entire Opera. Bring them...

Otherwise pave the way for Daniel..........

[dskira]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Ask any designer to give away his plans for free, to the world, and thus throw away his livelihood, and he will tell you to go to hell. So will I. Go to hell, Daniel!

Brent, Brent what a very awful think to say. It's too hot

Why when I ask for calculation I have to go to hell? It is because Brent, you don't have them.
A lot of designer publish the plans, nothing wrong with that.
Some of the numerous designer like Buehler, the late Rabl, your friend the late Francis Herreshoff, the late Engleman, and a lot of very alive one published in a magazines plans.
I have a list of 50. So don't ask me to ask them individualy, it will be time consuming. But if you open a magazine, it can be a revelation for you.
If you knew your trade you will know that publishing plans are the way to go, sharing is important if you want to design boat.
And they sell also plenty of them as a result.
I forget: they all knows how to design.
Your livelihood? you said the designers are scam artist asking for money, so YOU are the one you denounce .What a mentality Brent
Daniel