A few questions for the smart ones

[DNSeal]

Hello I am what one would say somewhat new to the sailing arena although I have more than twenty two years owning various motor vessels and I have been on enough sailers to know what the leech, luff, clew, etc mean. None the less, in my early later years (now) I find myself seeking a method of comfortably spending two years afloat cruising the Caribbean. Since I believe that (if attainable and maintainable) size means comfort, I have been reviewing 55 plus motor sailors. I hope that I do not upset the balance of this site, but my personal needs; size of vessel, lack of speed requirements and time at anchor have lead me to this selection. My question is - am I making too much of a compromise to obtain comfort (motorsailer) or should I commit more time and energy in seeking a suitable Sailer? My search over the last year has been narrowed down to a late 70's 62 ft John Alden motorsailer. As for comfort, layout, storage and craftsmanship it cannot be beat. Another question - is there a greater depreciation in value on motorsailers? I am also concerned about tight anchorage sights as the windage on this vessel (it has a tall pilot house) may lead to different tendencies of other boats abeam of me, will I be required to mount a larger anchorage sail to compensate or must I anchor off alone? Final question is regarding attainable speed under sail. Its current sail plan is a ketch, not one of which is a furling system, which as you can imagine translates to a lot of work. What would be the best (ease of operation and effectiveness being taken as main criteria) sail set up retaining the ketch configuration (in boom furling, mast, etc)? I am also seeking a suitable bow thruster for those trying moments and I am also seeking information on performance gains by installing a feathering prop, in other words will the effort and cost increase the speed on a boat that is not built for speed to begin with? Well that’s it for now, any advice will be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance for your comments.

[Karsten]

I would install as many powered winches and furling systems as I could. Otherwise you won't go sailing at all with a small crew on a 62ft boat because it's just too much work. Feathering props definitely increase performance so I would seriously think about that investment.

Cheers,
Karsten

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by DNSeal

.... I have been reviewing 55 plus motor sailors...... but my personal needs; size of vessel, lack of speed requirements and time at anchor have lead me to this selection. My question is - am I making too much of a compromise to obtain comfort (motorsailer) or should I commit more time and energy in seeking a suitable Sailer? My search over the last year has been narrowed down to a late 70's 62 ft John Alden motorsailer. As for comfort, layout, storage and craftsmanship it cannot be beat. ... I am also concerned about tight anchorage sights as the windage on this vessel (it has a tall pilot house) may lead to different tendencies of other boats abeam of me, will I be required to mount a larger anchorage sail to compensate or must I anchor off alone? Final question is regarding attainable speed under sail. Its current sail plan is a ketch, not one of which is a furling system, which as you can imagine translates to a lot of work. What would be the best (ease of operation and effectiveness being taken as main criteria) sail set up retaining the ketch configuration (in boom furling, mast, etc)? I am also seeking a suitable bow thruster for those trying moments and I am also seeking information on performance gains by installing a feathering prop, in other words will the effort and cost increase the speed on a boat that is not built for speed to begin with? Well that’s it for now, any advice will be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance for your comments.

I might make the suggestion that you visit my discussion of motorsailers at
http://www.runningtideyachts.com/motorsailing/
I address your speed concerns, your anchorage concerns, and your handling of a big ketch rig concerns. Look forward to your questions of my concept.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by DNSeal

My search over the last year has been narrowed down to a late 70's 62 ft John Alden motorsailer. As for comfort, layout, storage and craftsmanship it cannot be beat.

I assume you have found a particular vessel? Do you have a profile drawing? Is she wood, glass or metal? These can be quite nice vessels, and certainly cheaper than new-build.

....concerned about tight anchorage sights as the windage on this vessel (it has a tall pilot house) may lead to different tendencies of other boats abeam of me, will I be required to mount a larger anchorage sail to compensate or must I anchor off alone?

I don't think you will need a LARGE anchorage sail, but maybe set far enough aft.

Final question is regarding attainable speed under sail. Its current sail plan is a ketch, not one of which is a furling system, which as you can imagine translates to a lot of work. What would be the best (ease of operation and effectiveness being taken as main criteria) sail set up retaining the ketch configuration (in boom furling, mast, etc)?

I might make the suggestion that you eliminate the mainsail and insert in its place a staysail (mizzen) that can be roller furled....kind of depends on height of your mizzen mast. Akin to the discussion I bring up about the old Out Island ketches in my website discussions of a single-masted ketch.

I am also seeking a suitable bow thruster for those trying moments and I am also seeking information on performance gains by installing a feathering prop, in other words will the effort and cost increase the speed on a boat that is not built for speed to begin with? Well that’s it for now, any advice will be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance for your comments.

Bow thruster is not a bad idea. Feathering prop is questionable....expensive, not trouble free, and must be utilized over a long period to justify the economy gain. At 62 feet, is she single or twin engined??

[DNSeal]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I assume you have found a particular vessel? Do you have a profile drawing? Is she wood, glass or metal? These can be quite nice vessels, and certainly cheaper than new-build.

Gil - Brian she is glass. In addition I found more info on her. She was acutually built buy the third owner or John Alden for himself. Neil Tillotson, was a most interesting man in his time. It need work but hopefully I won't find too many surprises as I proceed.



I don't think you will need a LARGE anchorage sail, but maybe set far enough aft.

Gil - I see where you are going with this



I might make the suggestion that you eliminate the mainsail and insert in its place a staysail (mizzen) that can be roller furled....kind of depends on height of your mizzen mast. Akin to the discussion I bring up about the old Out Island ketches in my website discussions of a single-masted ketch.

Gil - I'm a bit lost here as I do not wish to modify the rigging



Bow thruster is not a bad idea. Feathering prop is questionable....expensive, not trouble free, and must be utilized over a long period to justify the economy gain. At 62 feet, is she single or twin engined??

Gil - I am seeking a 350 lb thruster as we speak, not sure if I want to go with Eletrical due to over heating or short period of use. She is powered by a single 250 HP Caterpiller

I could send you a few prints if you provide an e-mail, as this site does not post Tiff files. Thanks again for you help. I will spend more time on your site refferencing the motor sailer sections

[brian eiland]

Brian - might make the suggestion that you eliminate the mainsail and insert in its place a staysail (mizzen) that can be roller furled....kind of depends on height of your mizzen mast. Akin to the discussion I bring up about the old Out Island ketches in my website discussions of a single-masted ketch.

Gil - I'm a bit lost here as I do not wish to modify the rigging

In my discussion of 'Sail Propulsion' I am pointing out some of the negative aspects that can be attributed to the mainsail. One reference I make, "Conventional booms excessively flatten the foot of the mainsail, and are often oversheeted, contributing significantly to the leeway forces. I once had a copy of a test on a Morgan 41' Out Island ketch , where upon removing the mainsail, the boat lost only 1/2 knot of speed, but cut its leeway in half (from 11 to 6 degrees). A staysail was then rigged between the masts in place of the mainsail, and the boat regained 1 knot of speed while retaining its decreased leeway"

If you are looking to make this big boat easier to handle by one person, or a man and wife combination, you will discover that it is quite a chore by itself to simply get the mainsail hoisted and/or stowed after a days' sail. Keep the old main for distant trips when you have extra crew, and/or intend on keeping the sail up for some considerable time. For daysails in the Caribbean, have a staysail made (or buy a used one from Bacon Assc) that can be put on a roller furler stay rigged from the gooseneck at the mainmast to the top of the mizzen. You will use this sail a lot more than the big main, and just because it is so easy to use. Negates a big swinging boom on those pleasant daysails you will most likely do much of as you cruise the islands.