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  #1  
Old 11-28-2008, 07:21 AM
b.amateur b.amateur is offline
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fast, beachable 40ft monohull designs - suggestions?

Hey all you knowledgeable people around here, in my quest for the boat design that comes closest to my ideas I havenīt found much (see below)...can you add any suggestions (and/or opinions, experiences etc.):



- Hull length around 12m / 40ft +/- 10%

- Ability to dry out (preferably on bulb of vertical lift keel and twin rudders)

- Slim, light (ULDB-style), fast - however strong and suitable for all sea areas

- No fancy technical gimmicks (beyond liftkeel and retractable bowsprit), K.I.S.S. principle, suitable for double- and single-handing

- accomodation suitable for extended family cruising

- Hull construction epoxy-strip plank/Durakore, multichine plywood/Duflex or similar

- small foretriangle w/self-tacking jib + gennaker on retractable bowsprit (alternative: unstayed rig)



Designs I have found so far going roughly in the right direction are:

-Sadler Barracuda 45 by Tony Castro

http://www.bachyachting.nl/yachts/ht...45_aid-283.htm
http://www.rightboat.com/boats-for-s...Barracuda.html

-several designs by Oswald Berckemeyer and his company
(www.bm-yacht.de)

-Allures 40 + some Roberto Barros designs; but they have swingkeels

-Some Beneteaus + Feelings; too slow and white-GRP-ish for my taste though

-This one looks very nice, however beyond size and budget - maybe thereīs a smaller version?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-183630057.htm


Any hints on other designs even remotely fitting the description would be very welcome, and if anybody wants to start a general discussion on "beachable light fast cruisers" or whatever you wanna call them - feel free...
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2008, 11:10 AM
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Hansen Aerosprt Hansen Aerosprt is offline
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<< Any hints on other designs even remotely fitting the description would be very welcome >>

Check out the Fast 40- pretty much fits it. Not sure how far up the keel retracts for beachability but it does retract. Here is a website for one of them. Several were built (I think.) << http://www.lawndart.ca/index.htm >>
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2008, 11:23 AM
Crag Cay Crag Cay is offline
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Kelt 39

Southerly 42

Note: The Barracuda 45 was a good design but terrible construction. (It was the death of Sadler yachts). You need a certain 'skills portfolio' to be a happy owner.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:23 PM
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RHP RHP is offline
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Look up OVNI on Yachtworld.com and you´ll probably see the best contender in all lengths and prices.

Bear in mind the more shallow the draft etc.. the more questionable a yachts rough sea performance.

Other than that, a catamaran would be a logical choice.

Last edited by RHP : 11-28-2008 at 12:29 PM. Reason: fat fingers
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:06 PM
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Hansen Aerosprt Hansen Aerosprt is offline
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More on the Cape Bay Fast 40 here: << http://www.espresso-sail.de/ >>
A number were built using cold-mold wood construction.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2008, 05:02 PM
catsketcher catsketcher is offline
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Go with RHP

When it comes to ocean going, shoal draft and the ability to take the bottom a cat must be on your list unless you have good reasons not to include one. My 38 foot cat draws 2 metres boards down, 1 metre rudders down and 50cm rudders up - takes about 2 minutes to get boards and rudders up. We often take the sand in beautiful places cruising - the boat stays just as livable. The benefit of a cat is that there are absolutely no design compromises needed to do what you require.

cheers
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2008, 07:45 PM
b.amateur b.amateur is offline
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Thanks for all these quick replies - especially for the warning about the Barracuda, wouldn´t have expected construction problems there - maybe the cedar strip one is an option...

I´ve sailed on an Ovni and didn´t exactly enjoy the upwind performance...nicely built though, no doubt.
As for the rough weather performance - that´s why my preference would be a vertical lift keel with a bulb giving lots of ballast deep down...not too many designs with that seem to be on the market.

I like the Fast 40, but it will be too spartan for the rest of the family - the german website mentions a 50´ version (with standing headroom...) - have you heard of that one?

I understand all the valid arguments for a cat, but I will stay an ignorant and stubborn monohull sailor - no heel, no fun!

The Kelt 39 seems interesting - was that used as a prototype for the Feeling 39?
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2008, 04:35 AM
Crag Cay Crag Cay is offline
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Quote:
The Kelt 39 seems interesting - was that used as a prototype for the Feeling 39?
Yes Kelt (Kirie) became (or the designs were then made by) Feeling. I'm not sure if the 39 was exactly the same under oth brands, but the technology crossed over. Certainly the Kelt 850 was exactly the same boat as the Feeling 29, so could well have done.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2008, 11:11 AM
b.amateur b.amateur is offline
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I've found the following thread about the Barracuda quite interesting - really seems they shouldn't be touched, neither the GRP nor the strip planked one...

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...9/fpart/1/vc/1

What a pity they did such a bad job building this great design - I always thought Sadler had a good reputation? Did they just overdo it trying to keep the weight down?

And can anyone explain me why these boats don't seem to perform well upwinds? In my bloody amateur mind I always thought "slim hull + deep draft = good to windward?" (Same applies eg for the Comfortina Cayenne and the Soubise Plaisance Apocalypse, very fast downwind but not nearly as impressive closehauled)
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2008, 01:24 PM
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Eric Sponberg Eric Sponberg is offline
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You could also look at my design, Bagatelle. This 44'er is actually meant for cruising and racing on partially protected waters, so it would not meet the offshore cruising requirement for a family. But adaptations could be made that way in a new design. Stock plans are available for wood-epoxy construction.

http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/BagatellePlan.htm

Eric
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:59 PM
Steve W Steve W is offline
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Australian designer Col Clifford has several designs that fit your requirements,the web site is www.ccplans.com
Steve
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2008, 06:24 PM
matoi matoi is offline
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Eric,

I like your Bagatelle very much. But I would like to hear your opinion on something not directly related to this topic, but also not very far. I noticed that centre of effort of the sails in the scheme of Bagatelle is drawn ahead of the keel/centreboard. Wouldn't this cause a lee helm?

Thank you + excuse me for going slightly off topic

Best regards,

Mato
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Old 11-30-2008, 07:19 PM
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Eric Sponberg Eric Sponberg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matoi View Post
Eric,

I like your Bagatelle very much. But I would like to hear your opinion on something not directly related to this topic, but also not very far. I noticed that centre of effort of the sails in the scheme of Bagatelle is drawn ahead of the keel/centreboard. Wouldn't this cause a lee helm?

Thank you + excuse me for going slightly off topic

Best regards,

Mato
Mato,

As a matter of fact, Bagatelle, originally had very neutral helm, right on the edge, although the owner liked it that way. A few years later, he ordered a new keel design, and we shifted the keel forward a bit to give the boat a little bit more weather helm. We also needed to shift some weight forward, and we added more ballast because the draft was being reduced at the same time and we had to make up for lost stability. This new keel also works well, and to my estimations, the little bit more weather helm is better.

Eric
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2008, 02:59 AM
matoi matoi is offline
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Thank you for explanation!

Best wishes,

Mato
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2008, 03:03 AM
gouloozeyachts gouloozeyachts is offline
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In our hull design computer program a previous untapped option appeared as was necessitated by demands for a slim ULBD yacht. The program allows an infinite variation of displacement independent of length/ beam between our heavy, medium - (the original) light-or ultra light series. With ULDB, the weight distribution is critical and ballast ratios have to be better than by any of the other series. The hull construction requires some technical break-troughs that may collide with your K.I.S.S philosophy. In any case, K.I.S.S. is NOT synonym with cheap. You may find that, reading the attachments, the extra effort is not that bad and may be worth your while. We can make the yacht completely beach able without hobby horsing on an exposed bulb or wing. En passant, we perfected the retractable rudder in a drum (for your eyes only). We regard the (enclosed) isometric wire drawing as the most clear for judging the shape of the hull. Please note that every (curved) line across the centerline represents a permanent rib. The yacht has thus some 22 ribs from waterline entry until exit (spaced 480 mm).
Vital dimensions are LOA 12.0 mtr; B 3.546 mtr; Displ 3540 kG Hull skin 46.4 sqm.
Hull + ribs weighing 882 kG.(no hidden extras)

We can be contacted at:
E-mail:gouloozeyachts@absamail.co.za
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File Type: doc (web) construction.doc (39.5 KB, 377 views)
File Type: doc (web) DESIGN PHILOSOPHY the hull.doc (34.5 KB, 335 views)
File Type: doc (web)Wood-reinforced GRP.doc (32.0 KB, 331 views)
File Type: doc The ultimate spar.doc (34.5 KB, 365 views)
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