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  #1  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:24 PM
xarvia xarvia is offline
 
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Location: Hobart
Designs similar to Mini 650s

Hi everyone,

For years I've drooled over Mini 650s. A relatively affordable ocean-worthy high performance vessel that contrasts dramatically with my extremely robust aluminium cruiser ( a Reinke 13m bilge keeler ). Hence I'm daydreaming about building a Didi Mini Mk 3 ( http://www.dixdesign.com/didiminiMk3.htm ).

I'm in Australia where there is no established Mini 650 scene. Consequently if I ever built a small racy boat, there is not that much incentive to build to class rules. (I do fancy the idea of a TransAt, but time limitations would prevent the associated circumnavigation!).

So, I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what other vessels might be appropriate for a similar build cost. Since I have a cruising vessel, the idea is to provide as big a contrast as possible and allow me to develop technical sailing skills (as well as teaching my children, who by the time the hypothetical boat hits the water would be in their early teens).

Some vague criteria
- Fast and technical
- Sea worthy (we end up sailing in 40-50 knots and large seas far too often)
- Probably no foils or canting keel as the advantage in the mini fleet doesn't seem that big especially in the context of my cruising (i.e. not racing!) sailing skills
- Singlehandable, but benefits from a crew of 2-3.
- Don't care about it being trailerable, it will live on a mooring.
- Probably plywood core construction

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2017, 02:36 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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This is a tentative 6.5 metre, not mini-Transat, water ballasted, T foil dagger and rudder, moderate small wing mast rig. Kind of like a larger version of my 5.5m but with single mast.
Attached Thumbnails
Designs similar to Mini 650s-650dss2rig_linesplan.jpg  Designs similar to Mini 650s-skimmersail1.jpg  
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:52 AM
tane tane is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2015
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Location: austria
check out
http://www.rolland-archi.com/spip.php?article28
had a high-scoring plywood mini in a minitransat a while ago
http://www.yachtdesign.com.br/france...ltichine23.php
there is a 7.5m version of this
https://www.google.at/search?q=super...tzYtg9AofEM%3A
I don't know if he sells plans for homebuilders though (& u gotta polish up your french), its called "super calin 7.50"
http://www.xboat.fr/1715-SUPER+CALIN+7.50.html
lucas has ply-minitransats too:
http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Hist...0Minis/805.htm
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:57 AM
tane tane is offline
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here u go
http://www.fr-lucas.com/base_1141.aspx#Ancredetail
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  #5  
Old 01-07-2017, 08:04 AM
xarvia xarvia is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Location: Hobart
Thanks for all the ideas. Some of Rolland's production boats look very swish.

Gary: that looks like an interesting design, how have you found it to perform?

I've asked Dudley a few questions about the Didi Mini to which he's responded very quickly. There is something to be said for a designer that speaks the same language (and responds).

Now to keep dreaming...
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2017, 08:57 AM
tane tane is offline
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http://www.mediareard.com/fr/monocoques/gamme-bepox
when it was launched the bepox 750 had rave-reviews in the french yachting press
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2017, 09:51 AM
tane tane is offline
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that was the ply-rolland:
http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Hist...0Minis/165.htm
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:28 PM
tane tane is offline
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anotherone:
http://www.colsonyachtdesign.com.au/...-multi-chined/
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2017, 06:46 AM
feunatz feunatz is offline
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The Lion 550 looks a bit like a smaller mini
http://unikyachts.com/en/lion-550-adrenaline-2/

Forumthread by unik: Lion 800 new plywood yacht

But to get similar performance some alterations to the ballast and sail area would be needed.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2017, 01:10 PM
Skyak Skyak is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xarvia View Post
Hi everyone,

For years I've drooled over Mini 650s. A relatively affordable ocean-worthy high performance vessel that contrasts dramatically with my extremely robust aluminium cruiser ( a Reinke 13m bilge keeler ). Hence I'm daydreaming about building a Didi Mini Mk 3 ( http://www.dixdesign.com/didiminiMk3.htm ).

I'm in Australia where there is no established Mini 650 scene. Consequently if I ever built a small racy boat, there is not that much incentive to build to class rules. (I do fancy the idea of a TransAt, but time limitations would prevent the associated circumnavigation!).

So, I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what other vessels might be appropriate for a similar build cost. Since I have a cruising vessel, the idea is to provide as big a contrast as possible and allow me to develop technical sailing skills (as well as teaching my children, who by the time the hypothetical boat hits the water would be in their early teens).

Some vague criteria
- Fast and technical
- Sea worthy (we end up sailing in 40-50 knots and large seas far too often)
- Probably no foils or canting keel as the advantage in the mini fleet doesn't seem that big especially in the context of my cruising (i.e. not racing!) sailing skills
- Singlehandable, but benefits from a crew of 2-3.
- Don't care about it being trailerable, it will live on a mooring.
- Probably plywood core construction

Any thoughts?
My thoughts FWIW

If I had a Reinke 13m and kids soon to be teens I would not make the mistake of wasting years building a crappy detuned mini TA. You think Mini TA's are cool? Buy one! (or if you are smart rent) The negative of the box rule class is that it makes piles of "obsolete" boats and with the advent of foiling and rule interpretations there is a bumper crop of newly obsolete boats. Taking time away from family (and your cruiser) to spend more building a "TA like" boat, without all the cutting edge features and materials would be a complete waste. The result would be an expensive, fat little boat. Inferior in every way to your cruiser and dividing your time.

If I was in your shoes I would be looking for dingy designs that would be great hanging off the davits of your Reinke and a thrill to sail for your growing kids. I have no info about your kids so I am guessing but open Bic, or minimoca, or even kiteboards.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2017, 06:50 AM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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What's the attraction of the Mini in particular, compared to something like an Elliott 7 which is similar in all-round performance at far less cost and hassle?
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2017, 05:34 PM
xarvia xarvia is offline
 
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Location: Hobart
Thanks a lot for everyone's thoughts. I agree Skyak, building boats is expensive and time consuming, I've tracked down a couple of folks who built Didi Mini's in Australia and sold them after a few years for just over construction costs, you certainly won't make money out of it. My plan was that building would be a winter hobby eating into time I might normally spend on other woodwork projects and with a very laid back timeline (over several years). So construction for the enjoyment for construction, rather than as a means to obtain a boat. This idea though is just a daydream, and most likely won't come to fruition.

The appeal of Mini's, CT249, is their seaworthiness, speed and technical challenge of sailing them. I've sailed our cruising yacht and windsurfers, fairly opposite ends of the spectrum. A combination that is seaworthy and can go fast is a interesting proposition! That said, if I drop the open ocean seaworthy aspect, a lot of options in terms of sportboats etc. certainly open up... The i550 looks like a pretty good self build.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:46 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Here are a few building shots of the 5.5 metre Coxs Bay Skimmer in tensioned ply with glass, carbon and some foam, very simple, not expensive, very light.
Attached Thumbnails
Designs similar to Mini 650s-skimbuild-copy.jpg  Designs similar to Mini 650s-skimmerbuildy.jpg  Designs similar to Mini 650s-skimmer2masts2.jpg  

Designs similar to Mini 650s-skimmer-copy.jpg  
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2017, 03:22 PM
Skyak Skyak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xarvia View Post
Thanks a lot for everyone's thoughts. I agree Skyak, building boats is expensive and time consuming, I've tracked down a couple of folks who built Didi Mini's in Australia and sold them after a few years for just over construction costs, you certainly won't make money out of it. My plan was that building would be a winter hobby eating into time I might normally spend on other woodwork projects and with a very laid back timeline (over several years). So construction for the enjoyment for construction, rather than as a means to obtain a boat. This idea though is just a daydream, and most likely won't come to fruition.

The appeal of Mini's, CT249, is their seaworthiness, speed and technical challenge of sailing them. I've sailed our cruising yacht and windsurfers, fairly opposite ends of the spectrum. A combination that is seaworthy and can go fast is a interesting proposition! That said, if I drop the open ocean seaworthy aspect, a lot of options in terms of sportboats etc. certainly open up... The i550 looks like a pretty good self build.
I completely understand the joy of building a sexy, fast craft and dreaming. Even though I have done just a little of the former and lots of the latter it has still been enough to be recognized by polite society as an "affliction". Even if the building does not encroach on sailing or family time, the product of your labor will (with a 650 or i550). I suggest again that you address your mini dream by spending a few days and nights sailing one. They are screaming fast, but that is a by virtue of light weight, a high tech rig you can't build, and only downwind. "Seaworthy" but only in a brutaly abusive sense.

The i550 is actually quite different; it's a can racer ->VMG focused, where the 650 is point to point ->downwind. My recommendation for everyone considering a can racer is to do a local survey -the best boat is most likely determined by the fleet you want to join. Don't want to race cans? Then what you want is a hot rod boat like Gary's skimmer. If you still like the downwind boats you need to think about how you will get back upwind -trailer, or better yet, on the davits of your cruiser. Phil Bolger designed a greater variety of boats than about anyone, and his finding was "the best boats are the ones you can live aboard or carry". The reason is that boat use is inversely proportional to the difficulty getting on the water. You have the live aboard, my advice would be to build a boat you can carry.
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