design critique- a 37' cat-ketch sharpie/dory (pictures)

[Seafarer24]

I checked out this 37' gaff-rigged sharpie/dory over the weekend. It has its share of problems (rot) but still has my interest (parts are good and price is right).
Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone cared to critique the design, as there is one thing that is bothering me: centerboard location. I think it is too far forwards and would create considerable weather helm.

http://images.traderonline.com/EMedi...02000001_1.jpg (no longer online)
http://images.craigslist.org/0101000...a70b00e07b.jpg (no longer online)
http://images.craigslist.org/0101070...5b8b00b73a.jpg (no longer online)

The centerboard trunk starts a couple feet behind the main mast, and ends a couple feet before the mizzen. The trunk is an open slot from the deck to the keel. Both of the masts are equal height, and I am assuming equal sail area. Beam is 9' and draft is 32" (board up). A bit deep for a Sharpie, in my opinion.

Another question: the stem and sternpost are both ~4"x4" post that extend past the deck. Is it alright to use these as a sampson post?

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Seafarer24

I checked out this 37' gaff-rigged sharpie/dory over the weekend. It has its share of problems (rot) but still has my interest (parts are good and price is right).
Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone cared to critique the design, as there is one thing that is bothering me: centerboard location. I think it is too far forwards and would create considerable weather helm.

You may be wrong about that. The reason for this is that you may well be dealing with a traditional centerboard, where you are more used to modern ones. Traditional centerboards lower only their lower aft corner below the hull. The the upper forward corner stays in the case and the lower forward corner is where the axle pin goes. This way, as much as half the board stays in the case.

More modern boards tend to be 'L' shaped. The short arm of the 'L' stays in the case and the forward corner where the short and long arms meet is where the axle pin goes. When the board is lowered, the long arm of the 'L' can end up pointing straight down and can then have an airfoil like shape. This is considerably more efficient which is why it's done.

The consequences of these two designs is that the 'L' shaped one will have its Center of Area (CA) closer to the forward end of the case, where the more traditional one will have its CA much closer to its aft end.

The centerboard trunk starts a couple feet behind the main mast, and ends a couple feet before the mizzen. The trunk is an open slot from the deck to the keel. Both of the masts are equal height, and I am assuming equal sail area. Beam is 9' and draft is 32" (board up). A bit deep for a Sharpie, in my opinion.

Another question: the stem and sternpost are both ~4"x4" post that extend past the deck. Is it alright to use these as a sampson post?

I would never use a bow or stern post as a Samson post. If either one is ripped off, the boat could very well sink. A properly designed Samson post distributes its loads more more effectively throughout the hull and deck.

I would be very interested to see what kind of bottom configuration this boat has. Does it have a slotted keel, a 'V' bottom, or does it have a great deal of ballast. Either one of these would explain the 32" board up depth.

This, indeed looks like a boat worth fixing up.

[Seafarer24]

I believe you're right with regards to the traditional style centerboard being used here. It makes a lot of sense considering how the boat is constructed.

Thank you for your comment with regards to the sampson post idea as well. currently the boat has little cleats screwed into the top of the stem and sternpost. They're just crappy little cleats though, and would pull out before the wood broke. Especially since they were screwed into unsealed wood and have caused some (more) rot

There are iron (lead?) triangular-shaped rods under the cabin sole that can be easily moved around by hand. I used one to poke at some rot, but figured their only other use is some sort of ballast.

I haven't been contacted back about this boat, which is very odd as I've shown much interest in it, and am just about the only person that has (and it's been for sale for years now).

[marked77]

I bought the boat mentioned in this post. It is one of the most unique boats I have ever owned. Rot never bothered me as it is par for the course. The simple design excites me and the boat seems to be very light with huge sail area. I plan on cleaning the bottom tomorrow to see the configuration. I do not know where the 32" draft came from. I will post my findings. The people never responded to most because there are a huge amount of tire kickers in Hudson. I made an offer and they took it. I just pulled up the front sail and it seems to be in pretty good shape. The boat had not been sailed for 5 years so I had some serious scraping to do. I believe this boat can easily be pushed by a 9.9 high thrust but I have a 25 4 stroke I may put in her. I have owned Wharrams, Pivers, etc. But I think with he simplicity of this boat I will probably like it most. It was nice as I only had to move her 1000 yards with a 2.5 4 stroke! LOL Take care and any knowledge or comments about this boat are appreciated.

[troy2000]

Pictures....we want pictures.

The ones that were attached to your original post don't seem to be there anymore.

32 inches with centerboard up sounds extremely deep for a sharpie, even a sharpie/dory, especially if it's referring to actual hull depth instead of some sort of appendage. In contrast, the 28' sharpie I'm working out a design for in model form right now has a draft of 8 inches.

Is yours something like the design by Selway in the following link, perchance? Although it borrows sharpie construction techniques, I'd call it a sharpie more by courtesy than by definition. I'm not knocking the design just because it doesn't fit my definition of a sharpie, of course; I'm not that hung up on semantics.

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Yachtso...htm#LOOSEMOOSE

[marked77]

I was not the original poster...after reading the post I realized it was the boat I bought. No, the boat is like a 37' canoe with a small cabin. Most of the boat has only about 3 feet from the floor to the deck. It has 2 fiberglass free standing masts will fully roached sails. I do not know what the bottom is like until I dive under tomorrow. I am hoping that it is flat and that they are wrong about 32 inch draft. Thats why I wondered where they came up with the 32" as I have no reason to believe it is not flat. It seems to have a huge amount of sail area for such a lively hull. I took the boat home with my pontoon boat pulling her and the motor in reverse....lol a 2.5 at half throttle. I have looked everywhere for anything that looks like it but to no avail. Both sails are the same size and free standing. I will post more tomorrow with photos......take care Mark ps the centerboard trunk is about 8 feet long which keeps me hoping the bottom is flat as on our coast it is very shallow.

[marked77]

Forgot, the rig is not gaff rigged as the original poster thought. Is it called marconi?

[marked77]

anyone that knows this design I would appreciate any info. I dove under the boat today to clean the bottom. It is a flat bottom but does have a 12 inch fixed keel from the centerboard back for most of the length of the boat. It appears to have a 32 inch draft but without the 12 inch keel would be 20 inches which would be more in line with most sharpies....any info would be appreciated.

[troy2000]

Now that is an interesting-looking boat.

It certainly isn't anything I'm familiar with -- but I'd have been tempted to buy it, too. As a matter of fact, I'd have had trouble passing it up, if I had the money for it.

[frank smith]

Cool boat , looks like a big EGRET type sharpie . Good luck with it, and please post more info .

[marked77]

I am not sure I am keeping the Sharpie. I fixed all rot in the cockpit and glassed it in. There is a small amount of rot on the port side hull but only about 1 square foot and it has a quarter inch of glass on it so it can be repaired at a later date. Very solid boat. It has about 1/4 inch glass over it's entirety.....I was actually surprised at how strong it is. The bottom is flat but has a 12" keel the entire length of the boat explaining te 32" draft. The sails are in useable condition and are fully roached. I am going to throw her on ebay just for kicks as I have 4 boats in the water and I think I am turning into a pontoon guy witha 21' sailboat to sail. If there is any interest I will sell very inexpensively...I also have a 4 stroke 9.9 with controls....Mark

[JRich]

Marked77, did you ever figure out why the boat was sitting so low on her waterline at the bow?

[frank smith]

Originally Posted by JRich

Marked77, did you ever figure out why the boat was sitting so low on her waterline at the bow?

it looks to me as though the stern is high . The dimensions work out to 4'
parallel sides , I mean that it looks as though it was made by expanding panel sides . But that is what just what I can see from here . Ill wait for Marked77 answer .

[marked77]

This boat is a double ended boat. It is not sitting low as some had thought. When I bought it I re did the cockpit area as that is where the rot was. It is a very unusual boat and the freeboard is very low in the middle. I may be selling it inexpexpensively as I broke my ankle and had surgery twice. However, I keep deciding to keep her :0). If there is interest let me know as it is in Hudson Florida. 863-934-2055.

[marked77]

After dealing with broken ankle I finally began repair and painting....painted hull a slate blue and will add navy blue and white accents. Will keep decks white for now. Absolutely incredible what a coat of paint does for a boat. She looks fantastic with one coat only so far. I am changing cockpit configuration and making cabin minimal. I drew the reconfiguaration and paint scheme prior to doing anything.....this will be a very sharp boat when I finish....will send photos as I can....you will be shocked at the change. Glad I did not sell the boat as she is very solid now and was built very solid.