Design Challenge: Trapwing-"on-deck" ballast-12'-22'

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by sail fast

Doug, I would like to see a one meter model of this boat, could it become an AMYA Class? why not.
sailfast

=====================
SF, heres a 36" prototype movable ballast foiler(microMOTH). It was extremely difficult to sail and because of that never became a product of microSAIL!.
But, the scow below and the Melges model were developed using the same basic Trapeze Power Ballast System and were tremendous fun to sail( and were self-righting). Having control of the ballast on an RC boat is loads of fun and one of the most exciting experiences in rc sailing. Hopefully, a new RC class using movable ballast will emerge before long....

[Doug Lord]

View of rail seat system-seats easily remove for single "sit-in" seat:

[Doug Lord]

View of model with "sit-in" seat and "foil assist" underwater configuration:

Note: Resistance Testing proposal of this hull and foils here: Resistance Testing-Planing Hull Sailboat

[sail fast]

Looks to me that the bow would "pitchpole" in choppy water and or high wind these light weight 36" and one meter boats are hard to control ih those conditions.
sail fast

[Doug Lord]

View of trailerable configuration-wing pivots and slides slightly to side:

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by sail fast

Looks to me that the bow would "pitchpole" in choppy water and or high wind these light weight 36" and one meter boats are hard to control ih those conditions.
sail fast

--------------------------
If you're talking about the microMOTH you're right. It was a poor design. I was trying to develop an inexpensive workable microfoiler. It needed to have the ballast move fore and aft as well as a minimal keel bulb-that would have made all the difference. The "skinny" 36 hull it was based on was quite fast when sailed in a "normal" keel configuration. Any new movable ballast model needs to have a minimum keel bulb-just enough for pitchpole recovery along with the Trapeze Power Ballast System. A good, well designed Trapeze Power Ballast System equipped boat is a blast....

[ancient kayaker]

I would imagine a high performance RC sailing model would be hard enough to control at the best of times what with the need to synchronize rudder and sheet and avoid getting disoriented by changes in direction changing the sense of the transmitter controls.

Adding the unique challenges of foiling PLUS moving ballast would demand cat-like reflexes and octopus-like physical attributes!

Given that there is enough actuator power available in the model, automating the ballast control sounds like a good idea, and reasonably easy to do as well.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

I would imagine a high performance RC sailing model would be hard enough to control at the best of times what with the need to synchronize rudder and sheet and avoid getting disoriented by changes in direction changing the sense of the transmitter controls.

Adding the unique challenges of foiling PLUS moving ballast would demand cat-like reflexes and octopus-like physical attributes!

Given that there is enough actuator power available in the model, automating the ballast control sounds like a good idea, and reasonably easy to do as well.

---------------------------
Well, not so easy on a monofoiler but on this boat it was a piece of cake. The dual differential wands took care of RM automatically and the design was virtually pitchpole proof though it could happen with a bad setup.
It was sailed with just two channels like every other rc boat.

[Doug Lord]

This is 120sq.ft. unstayed. One of several rigs to be tested for beginners:

[Doug Lord]

Moderate area rig with square top main AND square top jib. Rig also features lightweight buoyancy pod on top of mast to prevent turtling. Rig temporarily in place.
Found camera solution to slight blur-will replace many of the pictures already taken with better quality images as I get time.
----
The lightweight foam and carbon buoyancy pod used here was first used on a design of mine in 1972. It is a FIXED unit with its center of buoyancy close to the mast. It does not rotate nor is it attached to either the main or jib-which rotate 100% independently of the endplate/buoyancy pod.
----

Click on images THEN click on "+" sign. If "+" sign doesn't come up click on larger image then on "+" sign:

[bistros]

While you are working on your photography, you might want to give a thought to lighting as well. You've got some serious shadowing going on that is making things very unclear. Generally, the subject isn't placed close to a wall, and shadows are directed out of frame or eliminated by fill lighting. A borderless background can really help.

A professional like Chris O would probably be willing to help show you how to fill and control lighting and shadow.

Is this the original aeroSKIFF model rig with the decals removed and tweaked a little?

--
Bill

[Doug Lord]

Some additional pictures showing the "foil-assist" foils, 160 sq.ft rig (+ buoyancy pod) and centered WING. Jib temporarily taped in place:

Click on images THEN click on "+" sign. If "+" sign doesn't come up click on larger image then on "+" sign:

[Chris Ostlind]

I'm kinda confused by your latest "models", Doug.

Ever since you first proposed this Trapwing idea, you've been going on and on about how it would not turn turtle, was fully and automatically self-righting and that it would blister the local venues with high performance for lazy old fat guys and disabled sailors alike... just as it was conceived by you originally.

Now, we see you adding a whole new element with this foamy, top of the sail pod. (which was taken from an idea I put forth several years ago, by the way)

The simple act of including this previous design study indicates that you do not think that the Trapwing will self-right and that the electronic gizmos you so heartily hail as the end-all, be-all of disabled and lazy fat guy sailing... will not work as planned. It's looking like the Trapwing is in a slow, de-evolution of capability while you try to effect clandestine fixes for issues that may have been poorly resolved in the beginning.

Below, see my study renderings for an end plate device that would be incorporated at the top of the sail/mast, from January 2006. All images were originally posted on these pages and serve as prior art. The only things that I could find like this were sewn-in, flat panel foam pieces near the sail headboard. They provided no end plate effect with their flotation component.

Truth is, I have not had the time to pursue this design process to its completion, as I would have liked to... but, it would have been really courteous of you to have at least asked before borrowing the design of the concept for your own stuff without proper acknowledgement.

Perhaps you can see your way clear to doing that now?

No comment right now as to the technical aspects of the photography as shown.

.

[Gary Baigent]

Yeah, so there Doug, yeah - and I want acknowledgment for the swinging forward beam too. Actually Randy Smyth did it first - but his is a different setup with two beams to the single main beam on Scissoring Sid. So he also should also be acknowledged. And your boat is still a mess of contradictions, confusion and increasing complexity. I fully expect to see a helicopter rotor on top soon.

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

I have always wanted to sail a boat like a 2.4 Meter ... I'm interested in any ideas that would accomplish this in a relatively small POSSIBLY self righting monohull ...

Seems to me the self-righting onjective has been there from the beginning of this thread. I like the concept of the floaty foam top, though. What's the plan, Doug? Will you go for a RC model next? Do you plan to build this one full size?