Cruising yacht design recommendation (plans)

[Riva]

Hi!

I'm doing some research on boat designs and I could use some input from a more experienced skippers.
I'm looking into the possibility of building a boat and I am laying down the main properties I want the boat to have, and it goes something like this.

- LOA 35' 40'
- Beam 11.5' - 13'
- Daft 5.7' - 7'
- GRP Hull
- Wheel steering
- Sloop rig

The idea is to build a sturdy and reliable cruising yacht that we can feel safe in even if the weather becomes a little rough (though the definition of "rough" does tend to vary between sailors.. *smile* ), but basically should we embark on a around the world cruise the boat should be reliable.
I am willing to sacrifice some speed to have a more stable boat, I had in mind a good and heavy ballast and a well sized fin and good draft.
I am sceptic as going all the way to full keel.
Center Cockpit can be of interest if the hull is around 39' - 40'.

Although I admire the traditional boats, I like the openness and roomy, well illuminated feel below deck of the more modern 2 cabin boats (for example, the Bavaria vision 40 and the Oceanis 40).

Now is there anyone out there who knows of a good design that is available in plans that could be "something" along these lines?
Of course we could just buy a production boat that is ocean proven but I want to look into getting one built.
It would have huge sentimental value

Cheers.

Marcus L.
Sweden.

[RHP]

Originally Posted by Riva

Hi!

Although I admire the traditional boats, I like the openness and roomy, well illuminated feel below deck of the more modern 2 cabin boats (for example, the Bavaria vision 40 and the Oceanis 40).

Therein lies the devil. Thirty years ago hulls were created to handle sea and weather conditions, now they have been expanded to become marina apartments and cheapened, built down to a price, a luxury 'consumable'.

I'm no yacht designer but have followed yacht design for more than 30 years and has changed beyond recognition. Study the hull form of some of the classic designers' work - Laurent Giles, S&S, Holman & Pye etc.., read the likes of Eric Hiscock etc.. and you'll see that underwater hulls have flattened, widened out aft to provide the `owners saterooms' of today, shallow draft, small wetted area keels etc..

Its a massive subject in itself - and fascinating. Compare a design like the Rival 41 with the Bavaria 40. I know which I'd rather sit out a force 9 or worse on board.

Good luck.

[Riva]

Thanks for the input!
I looked into the Rival 41 and it is a good looking boat with the right specs.
Oh yes I am aware of the issues with the modern luxury boats, the reason I wrote "good and heavy ballast and a well sized fin and good draft", and by "good draft" I were referring to a prominent and deep keel. I should have made myself more clear.
I consider the keel of the Rival 41 to be a fin, no "modern fin" but still a fin.
In my uneducated opinion that is, and so probably wrong

Im guessing getting my hands on the hull plans for the Rival if I wanted to is impossible...?

I have also been looking at the Dudley Dix Shearwater 39, perhaps a bit silly but I do not want the rudder to be attached to the transom in that fashion...

[PAR]

This is a very difficult set of questions to answer. First of all, if this will be a first backyard build, then you have a very slight chance of completing it. An extremely high percentage of first builds, particularly if more then a small yacht, never see a launch. No offense, it's simply the odds.

If you're having it built for you, then it's just a matter of budget and time.

Second, you don't seem to have a firm grasp on what you want, which is generally paramount in a design selection process. Every successful build has one thing in common, the owner had a firm idea of what they wanted, desired and needed in their yacht. Of course this changed repeatedly over the years and during the process.

There are three types of yacht in this displacement range, aside the racers. A blue water passage maker, a coastal cruiser and a harbor queen. Harbor queens are the most common and cheapest to acquire. They have voluminous interior accommodations and everything a bachelor could ask for in a floating brothel, crushed velvet included.

With the current market, you can purchase these for pennies on the dollar. They'll teach you what you like and don't like about them and you don't have to build a boat you don't like to sail and be forced to live with it.

Finding a real cruiser that matches your needs is a job. It requires considerable research, soul searching and hard answers to difficult questions about every aspect of yacht operation and life aboard. Very little of this can be offered by anyone, unfortunately. It's a job, which you'll spend considerable time grinding away at, figuring just what you do want, desire and need.

If you do your job right, it'll take as much time finding a design as it does to get the boat built. As a rule we step up in size, until we get the yacht that is one size too big, eventually backing down to the perfect size, hopefully around retirement age. Jumping into a 40' boat can be a lot more boat then you want or desire to handle, which is why most of us step up in size from early in our ownership role. You don't know what you want without experience. You have to have experience to govern the type and layout of the boat that suits you best.

My advise is to get on as many different types and styles of boat you can and take them for a sail. Develop you passions, likes, dislikes and a list of the things your dream yacht just has to have aboard or incorporated into the design.

[Riva]

Thank you for your advice.
Hitching rides with as many boats as possible is ofc as you say it the only way to really nail the right design in the end.

[old_sailor]

I agree with Par on all counts. Having completed an eleven year project to build a Bruce Roberts Spray 40, as modified by my own preferences, I can tell you that it is not cost effective and, obviously hugely time consuming. If you are on a budget, the best bet is to find an older vessel that suits you, and perform a major refit based on your preferences. I personally like some of the old Morgans for value for the dollar and for seaworthyness.

Good Luck.

[Riva]

Ofc times change and new materials and technology comes into play.
But I have read a lot of materials regarding hull failures from surveyors and the development of "composite" hulls.
As it is a cheaper way to build a boat than the classic full fiberglass hull. Although a balsa core is more reliable than the error prone foam core even balsa should not be used under the water line.
This is one of the main reasons I would like to build the hull (or have it built for me).
Solid fiberglass with a good amount of frames and bulkheads.
For the deck on the other hand the balsa sandwich will do just fine as long as no screws or bolts are going into the core...

The main issues with these new "high tech" composites seem to be that the boat builders seldom (if ever) spends several years in real world testing, the customer instead have to act guinea pig for the boat company.
Easily understandable though, boat builders wants to have food on the table too and customers want to have "affordable" boats.
The boat industry is hardly the only industry doing this.

old_sailor: 11 years is a mighty long time, props for pulling through and finishing it!
When I say that I will build it myself I am mostly talking about outsourcing the work, If i would do have the boat built I would try to streamline the process as much as possible, time is money as we know. Establishing the overall building plans and setting up the budget for the whole build prior to any hands come into work.
Then the build hopfully will progress with a 5-days-a-week-speed.

[dskira]

Originally Posted by ccdiver

Murphy's Law,,, whatever can go wrong, will with a " traditional " boat.
!

Sorry, I don't see the relation between the two. It is like talking apples and oranges.
The mechanicals sytems can fail, not the "classic" or the"modern"
As for the rest, it is your opinion, and as you know the story...................

[dskira]

Originally Posted by ccdiver

Was that supposed to convey a complete thought "Dskira" , because it made no sense at all..
I think you are a "pine Tar " fan though...

I understand it was a complete thought.
Thinking can be misleading. Some things are not what they appear to be.
Yes I love the smell of pine tar. I have also soap of pine tar. Very good to cure small wound.

Daniel

Originally Posted by ccdiver

I can attest that Multiple layers of cores and Laminates are the key to overcoming the structural problems of composites construction..
The more you put in the sandwich,,, the better it tastes.

Well I can attest the opposite. So, who is right? And to the traditional versus "modern" , I have seen more "advanced composite" vessels failing in their first year in service than "old fashion" boats in their 50th.

Originally Posted by ccdiver

There is no doubting that the planing design and composite materials are more efficient..
As a lot of US Soldiers who would otherwise be dead can attest, they are also safer...

That was a bit, well, say not too professional comparison right? And what is efficient? Being the first round the buoy is nice, but being the last to survive a storm is nicer.

[PAR]

23 posts in one day, say you must have some kind of life Ccdiver, especially considering your vast experience and degrading all that you don't understand. Respect is earned, you're tone hasn't garnished any yet, but your single day verbosity, mostly filled with rants, self inflation, insults, innuendo and frankly misguided understanding of reality is preposterous.

Lets just take one example, your insistence that a fast planning craft is far better then displacement in a good blow. Well, frankly, I've been in many "good blows", including 5 hurricanes in small to mid size yachts and likely been in more boats, and passed more miles under more keels then you'll possibly ever see in your life time, on both types of craft and you're talking out your butt. If you're close enough to run and hide, sure a fast boat is nice, rough enough to knock out your dental work, but handy if you're close enough. If you not, you're going to be lucky to survive. My recommendation is rather then your generalities, which are doing nothing except pissing folks off (unless I'm the only one, at which point I'll apologies and back off), back up your grand exclamations with some studies and data, proving you're at least capable enough to perform the research you seem to have previously least partly preformed. Or is it your just design flower arrangements and read lots of sailing magazines.

Lastly, it would be nice to return this thread to the previous topic of the origional poster, rather then permit it being hijacked by newbies looking to "earn" their first reputation awards.

Originally Posted by PAR

rather then permit it being hijacked by newbies looking to "earn" their first reputation awards.

Seems that took place already...................

Originally Posted by ccdiver

PAR... Blow it out your keel Mr ASSumptions..the heavier your vessel the more it becomes it's own enemy in heavy weather because the weather is going to throw it around no matter what it weighs. The forces it is subjected to increase exponentially the heavier it is, in severe conditions.
If you had nearly as much experience as you claim you would know you cannot over design the forces nature can throw at you..
But you don't even know how to make a logical argument, much less a boat..
ROFLMAO

I guess YOU know how to make a boat? And you know how to sail the seven seas?





I like to bet, that we probably have sailed more miles, than you have done by car, built more boats, than you probably have seen from closer than a mile, and have more experience in using advanced technology than you even heard about!

What are you searching here? Hoe?

[Riva]

Originally Posted by PAR

Lastly, it would be nice to return this thread to the previous topic of the origional poster, rather then permit it being hijacked by newbies looking to "earn" their first reputation awards.

How kind of you
Starting a flame war with with my first thred in this forum almost makes me refrain from posting more...
I feel quite done with this thread anyway, the computer really can't supply me with anything more than pictures and opinions on what boats I should sneak a ride on at this point.

Cheers!