Couples boat?

[RHough]

I'm starting to look at boats that old guys sail.

Here is a basic SOR:
Easy to sail singlehanded or double handed
light air ability at high priority
boat that would be sailing (not drifting about) for an evening sail in 2-8 knots of breeze.
hard to capsize in under 16-18 knots of breeze
Sipping wine and relaxing in comfort.
relatively dry I like wild but not wet and wild
I'd race the boat for fun in even beercan races so it cannot be dull
No spinnaker required to sail off the wind but optional for the wild side.
No head required
No sleeping accommodations required
Enough cockpit space so another couple could join us
Trailerable from Canada to Mexico and back every year.
Boat and trailer absolutely less than 2500#

Boats like a Laser II are too cramped (we have one)
A Daysailer might work but still tippy in a breeze
A J80 would work but too big to think about hauling 5000 miles a year.

I'm thinking something like a Cross 18 trimaran that could use a beach cat rig but I'm starting the thread here in case there is a mono that might be god fit and I don't want to limit the choices to multi's.

The Hobbies with rack/seats are not appealing, crawling from hull to hull does not work for the romantic evening cruise requirement.

A Corsair Sprint 750 is close, but a bit big and at the upper weight limit. As much as I like the Buc 24 it is too much boat for what I need.

The gentleman's day sailers I've seen are too big and heavy.

Any ideas?

[Stumble]

Just a few thoughts:

Any keel boat without a lifting keel would be a real problem towing that far regularly. My suggestion would be to look only at boats with a lifting keel, multihulls, or daggerboard boats. Given that restraint a few things come to mind.

Melges 24 - Relatively fast, easy to trailer, the lifting keel is a huge bonus, and fast, used sails should be cheap, and there is a OD class if you want to race it. Weighs in at around 1800lbs.

A smaller Corsair (like the sprint, or maybe the 24) make it under your weight requirements as well. Though the Sprint just barely.

You could also look at a larger dinghy, but they are not really good daysailors for chilling with a glass of wine.

[Doug Lord]

Randy have you seen this thread? 21st Century Daysailer/Weekender
I think there are some monohulls there that would fill the bill. BUT, personally,
for room, trailerability, cost, shallow draft, beach handling, speed I don't think you can beat a tri designed for comfort so you can either sit side by side facing forward or on the side of the cockpit. If you don't need a back rest the WETA would work-there is a guy here that takes four people about a third of the time and sails with his wife most of the time. Gunkhole with just the main.... There are a lot of these around and more all the time so re-sale value should be good. Have a look and take a sail.....

click on image:

[messabout]

Take a look at the flying scott. It satisfies several but not all your requirements. There are a lot of scot sailors scattered around the US, who are usually kindred spirits and helpful too. No I am not a scot sailor but I have seen a plenty of 'em at regattas and elsewhere.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Just a few thoughts:

Any keel boat without a lifting keel would be a real problem towing that far regularly. My suggestion would be to look only at boats with a lifting keel, multihulls, or daggerboard boats. Given that restraint a few things come to mind.

Melges 24 - Relatively fast, easy to trailer, the lifting keel is a huge bonus, and fast, used sails should be cheap, and there is a OD class if you want to race it. Weighs in at around 1800lbs.

A smaller Corsair (like the sprint, or maybe the 24) make it under your weight requirements as well. Though the Sprint just barely.

You could also look at a larger dinghy, but they are not really good daysailors for chilling with a glass of wine.

Yep, towing a 24 foot boat is the extreme upper limit. I'd like to be able to launch from a ramp to make stops in SF or Lake Mead attractive options.





I keep coming back to this Cross 18

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Randy have you seen this thread? 21st Century Daysailer/Weekender
I think there are some monohulls there that would fill the bill. BUT, personally,
for room, trailerability, cost, shallow draft, beach handling, speed I don't think you can beat a tri designed for comfort so you can either sit side by side facing forward or on the side of the cockpit. If you don't need a back rest the WETA would work-there is a guy here that takes four people about a third of the time and sails with his wife most of the time. Gunkhole with just the main.... There are a lot of these around and more all the time so re-sale value should be good. Have a look and take a sail.....

click on image:

The Weta fails the relatively dry test (judging from the videos I've seen). I'm not in love with the looks either.

R

PS thanks for the link I had missed that one.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by RHough

I keep coming back to this Cross 18

===============
I like it-a lot.

pix-my 20 footer circa 1971

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

===============
I like it-a lot.

pix-my 20 footer circa 1971

A Hobie 18 rig would make it pretty docile for just mucking about and saves a ton of work. Add a masthead screecher or A-Sail for the beercans. Plus I have a friend that is adding boat building/repair to a Sail For Life apprenticeship program. They will be spending time in his sail loft, race training in Lasers, boat repair/building, and coaching juniors.

They have 5 boats to resurrect now, but in a year or so if the program grows roots I can have workspace for free and helping hands for free if I teach a bit of boat building. Could work out nicely. Once the building framework is done the next group could build a second or third boat and sell them to help support the school.

R

[jim lee]

We build these..



Its a pretty close fit to all of your criteria. Except it will sleep four if you want. And, for those more romantic moments, it is available with a built in stereo.

We got a write up in 48 North, just this morning.. Writup is on pg 32

Your in BC, we're pretty close, come have a look!

Link : The Left Coast Dart

-jim lee

[RHough]

Originally Posted by jim lee

We build these..



Its a pretty close fit to all of your criteria. Except it will sleep four if you want. And, for those more romantic moments, it is available with a built in stereo.

We got a write up in 48 North, just this morning.. Writup is on pg 32

Your in BC, we're pretty close, come have a look!

Link : The Left Coast Dart

-jim lee

Very pretty boat!

[jim lee]

We have extras!

We can make more!

-jim lee

[philSweet]

Get a Harley and a Marshall Sandpiper. 0-8 knots; ride. 8+ knots; sail. Combined wt about 2100#. Priced about the same as some of the other options. Resale on both is decent.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by jim lee

We have extras!

We can make more!

-jim lee

LOL ... I think it is cute boat and the family target is a good one. One of my all time favourite boats was my Excalibur 26.

The Dart is about 1000# more than I want to deal with though.

R

[rob denney]

Originally Posted by RHough

I'm starting to look at boats that old guys sail.

Here is a basic SOR:
Easy to sail singlehanded or double handed
light air ability at high priority
boat that would be sailing (not drifting about) for an evening sail in 2-8 knots of breeze.
hard to capsize in under 16-18 knots of breeze
Sipping wine and relaxing in comfort.
relatively dry I like wild but not wet and wild
I'd race the boat for fun in even beercan races so it cannot be dull
No spinnaker required to sail off the wind but optional for the wild side.
No head required
No sleeping accommodations required
Enough cockpit space so another couple could join us
Trailerable from Canada to Mexico and back every year.
Boat and trailer absolutely less than 2500#

Boats like a Laser II are too cramped (we have one)
A Daysailer might work but still tippy in a breeze
A J80 would work but too big to think about hauling 5000 miles a year.

I'm thinking something like a Cross 18 trimaran that could use a beach cat rig but I'm starting the thread here in case there is a mono that might be god fit and I don't want to limit the choices to multi's.

The Hobbies with rack/seats are not appealing, crawling from hull to hull does not work for the romantic evening cruise requirement.

A Corsair Sprint 750 is close, but a bit big and at the upper weight limit. As much as I like the Buc 24 it is too much boat for what I need.

The gentleman's day sailers I've seen are too big and heavy.

Any ideas?

The Cross 18 looks a pretty good fit, but I suspect you will not get the performance you want, particularly in light air and will get very wet at speed. Speaking as an old guy who likes to go fast who designed his boat around his non sailing wife's requirements, I reckon a harryproa will do it better than anything else.

Cantilever the cockpit seats either side of the windward hull and use the hull as the footwell. The cantilevered bits will keep you dry. Size the hull and the boa for whatever load you intend to carry. Make the lee hull as long as you can handle. Unstayed rig, (ballestron or una) is very quick and easy to rise/lower and allows lots of height for light air, automatic depowering for heavy.

A harryproa is light and cheap as there is less material required and quick and easy to build from flat panels. Easy to sail as you don't have to change sides and there is only one sheet to handle. No daggerboards to worry about and two large kick up rudders to make steering and maneuvering a breeze.

Looks different which is a negative if you try to sell it, but a big positive when it comes to meeting folks in new anchorages.

rob

[RHough]

Originally Posted by rob denney

The Cross 18 looks a pretty good fit, but I suspect you will not get the performance you want, particularly in light air and will get very wet at speed. Speaking as an old guy who likes to go fast who designed his boat around his non sailing wife's requirements, I reckon a harryproa will do it better than anything else.

Cantilever the cockpit seats either side of the windward hull and use the hull as the footwell. The cantilevered bits will keep you dry. Size the hull and the boa for whatever load you intend to carry. Make the lee hull as long as you can handle. Unstayed rig, (ballestron or una) is very quick and easy to rise/lower and allows lots of height for light air, automatic depowering for heavy.

A harryproa is light and cheap as there is less material required and quick and easy to build from flat panels. Easy to sail as you don't have to change sides and there is only one sheet to handle. No daggerboards to worry about and two large kick up rudders to make steering and maneuvering a breeze.

Looks different which is a negative if you try to sell it, but a big positive when it comes to meeting folks in new anchorages.

rob

Thanks Rob

I've looked at the proas and I can see some good points. They don't stir me emotionally however. Was it you that was going to race one to Hawaii? I've been out of touch for a while and I haven't looked to find out how that went.

The W17 is very much like a Cross 18 but is a 2010 design with support from the designer. It seems fits my SOR nearly perfectly. Performance is a relative thing. After sailing a Catalina 30 for more than 15 years, averaging more than 6 knots on a windward leeward course is high performance! Light air ability to me means that I don't need a 150% genoa to sail at more than 2-3 knots in light air. I've come to loath overlapping headsails but a small jib gives me something to fuss with while my wife drives the boat.

R