Coton Kills ?

Cannot find the right forum for this question. This forum is as good as any.

I have read, several times, that cotton clothing is bad news for capsize victims. The premise is that cotton is more likely to promote hypothermia than other fabrics. One writer used the term "cotton kills". I doubt that cotton fabric actually "promotes" hypothermia. Perhaps it is less protective, less insulative, or something.

Anyone know more about this?

 

If you're wearing cotton, especially next to your skin, then that means you're not wearing one of the excellent alternatives such as wool or Polarfleece. Speaking as someone who works outside in the Minnesota wintertime, cotton next to the skin works well only if you are continuously generating heat through exercise or whatever. You've got to be able to vent excess heat and moisture otherwise what are wearing next to your skin ends up waterlogged... and water beng 800 times denser than water, transmits heat far faster than dry air. So what you want is something that will want to shed water rather then hold it, which is why naturally oily wool (or wool with very fine fibers such as cashmere) or some of the excellent synthetics (Polarfleece) do such a good job of insulating: They stay dry. Staying dry is more than half the battle.

Hope that helps.

 

Messabout,

The phrase 'cotton kills' is a common way of warning about the dangers of wet cotton clothes as compared to other fabrics. The primary reason being that where a lot of fabrics will provide at least some warming effect when wet cotton actually acts to accellerate the cooling process.

Basically cotton absorbes a ton of water, and does not like to let it evaporate. This has the effect of keeping a doused person wet longer than other fabrics. Since you loose body temprature 10 times (could be more, just makeing it up. But it is a lot) faster while wet versus when dry, the longer you stay wet the more likely you are to go into hypothermia. Secondly the fabric itself does not retain heat while wet, it just lets it all escape to the air, further accellerating cooling.

Compare this to wool or a modern synthetic. Which do not absorb nearly as much water, and can still act as an insulator while wet. Meaning if you get doused your clothes instead of acting to keep you wet and cold, will still help to keep you warm. Wool in fact is notorious for retaining heat even when dripping wet, and is still one of the better fabrics for cold and wet environments.

The short answer is that no cotton doesn't undergo a chemical reaction that actually kills you, but by accellerating the onset of hypothermia it can and has actually hastened peoples deaths.


Note that in the summer cotton can help you stay cool however.

 

Even the worst kind of clothing is better than no protection at all

 

Thanks for the input guys. Makes sense to me. Fanie you are probably on the right track too. I seldom sail in the nude so I will almost surely be wearing some kind of clothing.

It may not be fully appreciated by some, but the water in Florida can get quite cold. Years ago I was pitchpoled in Tampa Bay. Water temperature was about 63f. I was in the water for 30 to 40 minutes and damn near died. I was definitely on the verge of collapsing from the deep loss of temperature in my poor carcass. I dont want to do that again.

I know that a Florida sailor won't get much sympathy from Epondyne who is in the really cold country. I reckon that being forced to swim in the Boundry Waters or in Lake Superior would not be a pleasant experiece. Little sympathy from Stumble in Nawleans either. I once sailed an open dinghy in Lake Ponchatrain in cold, and driving rain, couldn't bail fast enough, too scared to become hypothermic. The exercise did not hurt the situation either. I was however very cold and debilitated. In any case I will henceforth avoid cotton clothing when venturing out on the water, wherever that might be.

Thanks, you may have saved me from resting in Davy Jones locker. Seems that a guy like me, who has been a water puppy for nigh on a hundred years, would know about the fundamentals. We live and learn.

Gene

 

You guys sail with clothing on eh ? In Tampa that is... You don't say. Around here...

Experience is something to get you to recognize a mistake when you make it again..

The point is it's always better do dress up than down, if you do go overboard (like last time ) it is better to even have cotton than not cotton. These tough young guys like to go half naked (probably to impress their buddy) until you go overboard. Some clothing will help retain body heating the water in clothing, best of course is not to pitch pole.

BTW, why did you do that ?

 

It's a common misunderstanding that folks living in what most would consider tropical, or barely sub-tropical waters and conditions, are not exposed to the effects of hypothermia. Consider yourself lucky in all this, Gene. The effect comes on very quickly, has remarkable effects on one's capabilities and leads to other problems that are quite often blamed for the ugly scenario to follow, while hypothermia escapes into the dark.

If a person wants to do serious sailing trips, even in very warm coastal waters, they should have the proper gear for personal protection and personal rescue. You wouldn't catch me doing more than a day sail without the proper gear to which I can have access in an emergency. This is very much boat type dependent and connected to just what caused the emergency in the first place. In any event, it's not a bad idea to have a well-thought-out ditch bag... even if you don't need the thing, OR a nice collection of personal gear that is actually ON YOUR PERSON, should you get tossed and you find that the boat is quickly moving away from you towards the horizon.

Go look at the required gear for the Watertribe, Everglades Challenge for a really solid understanding of where this kind prep work is well fleshed-out.

Say all you want about, "Oh, I can swim two hundred yards with all my clothes on", but put yourself in a tired condition, possibly a strong current and an increasingly hypothermic state (unless you sail in waters that are 98-100 degrees F in temp) You'll fall below the threshold of substantive safety and there goes the ballgame.

Want to confine your sailing to what amounts to a lagoon with a sandy bottom, a warm weather environment with no strong winds or currents in the lagoon...? Hey, you'll probably be OK. Personally, I want to sail in areas that are a whole lot more diverse than that slender slice of the offerings that are out there.

Staying with the boat after overturned...? Yeah, sure, if you are not suffering from exposure and it's not too far to get yourself to shore... and you have access to the kind of gear that will retain your body temp for an extended period, either on, or in, the boat, or on that accesssible shore. Remember that evaporative cooling, once you are all wet is deadly, more deadly, in fact than staying in the water and that can be ugly too. Slower, yes, but just as ugly. When that sun goes down, it gets different in a hurry.

Hopefully, this will stir-up all sorts of commentary from those who actually do, as well as, those who think they know, what they are doing.

Let the games begin.

 

We have poncho's, which is a life saver, wind proof, it keeps you dry and much warmer.

That's me (the good looking one) and my friend Philip on Bloemhof dam during a storm. The poncho is small to put away but scores high points when it counts. We only had beer to eat, but it is a good idea to take some food or energy bars along. The wind and lightning was awefull, we found shelter in some overgrowth there.

The life jackets can be worn under or over the poncho. Ours goes under, keeps them dry too.

 

So far every one here has given good advice. But here is a story about what actually happened to me that will illustrate the point. Many years ago while stationed on a Coast Guard cutter in Port Angeles Washington, I fell over the side. (please don't ask) The annual average water temp here is around 50 degrees. It was January. I was warmly dressed, for not being wet, that is. I had on cotton pants, shirt and of course underwear and a medium weight wool jacket and no hat. I had to swim about 100 feet to the dock. I was so cold by the time I got there, my ship mates had to pull me out. I could not have climbed the ladder by myself. But what actually saved me was that jacket. That jacket was completely dry on the inside and my shirt, except near the neck and waistband, was dry. Wool retains 60% of it's insulating ability when wet. There are very few fabrics that can do that including some of the so called miracle fabrics. All most all of my heat loss was from my groin area and head. Over half your heat less under normal conditions is from your head. Good reason to wear a wool knit hat. Other high loss areas are the groin and armpits. Fortunatley my upper torso was protected. This whole thing took only a few minutes but it felt like I was in the water for 20 or 30 minutes. Not a very pleasant experience.

Cotton is wonderful for keeping you cool in the summer but in the winter the only cotton you should have on is your underwear and socks. (if you wear socks on your boat)

And yes you can get hypothermia even in 75 degree water. You core body temp is over 20 degrees higher and water conducts heat 25 times as fast as air. That is a lot of heat being conducted away from your body. It takes longer in warm water than in really cold water (in Alaska, about 2 minutes) but it still is taking the heat away. That is why the Coast Guard and I and all other boating safety Organizations say Stay With The Boat. Rant over for the day.

 

Gents, lets not blame cotton for our wrong choices in sailing wear. Its like saying I didnt win the Formula 1 race last weekend because the Ferrari was faster than my Model T. If more suitable clothing exists then lets move with the times and take advantage of it. Advances in synthetic fibre technology has been unbelievable in teh last 20 years whereas cotton for obvious reasons fulfills the same role as it did with the ancient egyptians 4,000 years ago.

 

Fanie; You asked "why" did you do that? (Pitchpole the boat) Mid 1970s, February, Sailing regatta for small Boats. I was crewing for a young sailor of intermediate ability. My job was to coach him with some of the finer points of closed course racing. The boat was a Windmill. A two up, planing skiff of about 16' LOA, narrow, disp/SA= 4.0

Out of the west I noticed a fearsome looking storm front, approaching fast. Within minutes 30 or more boats had capsized in steady 35 knots with 45+ knot gusts. The bay is shallow and very sizable waves were generated. The kid, at the tiller thought it great fun to plane wildly on a broad reach. I was protesting furiously. "Head up you damned fool or I will kill you" We jumped a big wave and stuck the nose of the boat into the next one. The boat stood on its nose, did a pierouette and slammed down hard. I was ejected, The kid managed to stay with the boat. The boat blew away almost instantly. We are about 3/4 of a mile from the beach. Swimming was out of the question in such confused water. The boat is now 100 yards away and increasing distance fast. I am in deep trouble. Meanwhile the committee boats were doing their best to assist all the other capsized boats, but they were all near the starting line, now about a half mile away. I had a good PFD and a pair of scuba booties on my feet. The rest of my clothing was probably layered cotton. After a what seemed a very long time, the storm had subsided. Weather does that in this part of the world. Another Windmill crew eventually spotted me and did a rescue at some risk to themselves. I will be eternally grateful for their having saved my life.

Luck had it that on the previous week I had read and re-read an article in a magazine. The Small Boat Journal. The article described survival swimming. Not swimming actually, but a method for staying afloat for extended periods with minimum exertion. It worked. Type three PFDs are rated for 15 pounds of flotation. Not enough for vicious conditions. I needed the survival method. How lucky to have studied that magazine article so carefully. Somebody up there likes me.

Next time I will regale you with a survival tale of being in the Gulfstream during a powerful winter north easter. At least that time I stayed in the 35 foot power boat. Not even particularly cold. That experience gave me an insight into the old expression; "there are no atheists at sea".

 

Nice story Messabout, I always wondered why one cannot body surf each wave in such weather. You do in good weather, why not in bad... or maybe we panic too much.

Just goes to show a boat is never too big, it can never have too much floatation and one cannot ever be too hot... only girls can

'there are no atheists at sea'... yes it can be very humbling. Very. Sea is a darn big stretch of water.