cost to build a little aluminum sailboat

[Jehu]

I'm rounding up my pennies with the aim of building a little aluminum ketch, I am thinking of 34 meters, average beam say 7-8 meters and I am hoping someone on this forum can give me a rule of thumb for cost. I can figure out the hull cost; I thought there might be a rule of thumb out there of hull being __% total cost. I know its 7 figures. I plan to have it professionally designed but manage the build. Have yacht refit experience
Thank you all.

[Stephen Ditmore]

Originally Posted by Jehu

I thought there might be a rule of thumb out there of hull being __% total cost.

The numbers I've seen are in the 30%-40% range.

34 meters is little? How big a crew are you figuring on?

I've heard good things about Alustar aluminum alloy. Costs a little more, but may be worth it.

[Jehu]

Okay I can live with that cost. I figure that the design will cost be about $50,000, the metal about $400,000 and the welding about 4000 man hours.
I plan to have it set up for a couple to crew it themselves, hydraulic winches and all that. Being a ketch would help to break down the sail area and make it more manageable. There is a lady, cannot remember her name, who is singlehanding a 75' race boat right now.

[Stephen Ditmore]

So you were being tongue-in-cheek when you said it would be little. 34 meters = 111' - 6 1/2". A boat that size is a ambitious project.

This schooner: http://www.fastisfun.com/listings/Am...ner/index.html, was begun in 1989 as a father/son project. Length on deck = 52 feet (16m). Somewhere along the line the father died, then the son, so now the son's widow is selling the boat 70% complete. The designer's web site is here: http://www.roverschooners.com/

You're talking about something 6-8 times the volume?

If you want your boat to have resale/insurance value when you're done, be sure the scantlings are consistent with the guidelines of a classification society such as ABS or Lloyds. If you want to carry passengers for hire, there will be additional requirements. In the U.S., see 46 CFR: U.S. Coast Guard regulations for passenger vessels. For a vessel that size requirements will include subdivision (watertight bulkheads).

As I recall the American Yacht Review 2002 issue of Ocean Navigator Magazine: http://www.oceannavigator.com/browse/lsource.php?s=66
contained a good article about the construction, by owner, of a beautiful aluminum William Frank Offshore design. With your size & budget goals, you'd be more likely to meet them with simple, hard chine design, however, perhaps something like at http://www.parker-marine.com/

More on cost estimating can be found at This is how much sailing yachts cost.

Good Luck!

[Jehu]

Thank you Mr. Ditmore. I appreciate your advice and you obviously know what you are talking about.
I'll remind the naval architect about compliance with all these standards. I didn't know what "scantlings" meant but now I do thanks to google.

I have some experience with yacht refits and buying a project is like a refit in that you waste a lot of time tracing wires and plumbing trying to figure out what is good, what needs to be replaced, and what the builder was doing. The schooner you linked to is "partly wired" and to me this is the worst situation because, again, everything already there has to be double checked.
One design criterion that is important to me is that all systems be reasonably accessible for troubleshooting and repair. Unfinished project boats are to me worth their scrap value. Hence the importance of costing out prior to beginning (and adding 30% for unforeseen overruns) so that I am not trying to sell my unfinished project.
Mr. Sponberg's graphs certainly are useful, but I think his data is based on sale prices and not the actual costs--could be higher or lower. My biggest decision is whether to contract out the actual hull building or to do it myself. I would have to rent a big enough building and line up enough welders. 4,000 hours is two man years, or three months for a crew of 8. Like in any trade, I would have to go through about 20 welders to get 8 that had the skill level and work ethic. Union wage for welders is $23 an hour, but I plan on $30 per hour.

Design $50,000
Metal $400,000
labor $120,000
supervisory and welding equipment, materials, electricity. $60,000
rent of building ???
So, I think I could build the hull for about $700,000. After I get it down more exactly probably I'll get some bids and make a decision.

Thanks again.

[Stephen Ditmore]

Jehu:

You might enjoy this book: http://www.tillerbooks.com/Cruising_Designs.php
I'm thinking your boat would be somewhere between the 72' Kanter-Benford Pilothouse Ketch and the 131' ketch Antonia. Here's Benford's plans price list: http://www.benford.us/lists.html

There's a famous Laurnet Giles ketch named Blue Leopard that's exactly the size you have in mind. http://yachts.monacoeye.com/yachtsby...leopard01.html
If you go to http://www.laurentgiles.co.uk/ and click on "archive", you'll see how to inquire about existing plans from Laurent Giles.

If you'd like to hire me for a day to go to the Mystic Seaport Museum and comb through plans for you, it'd be fun for me, and might be a good value for you. A lot of retiring naval architects have donated their plans to Mystic Seaport, and they now have quite a collection.

I'd love to hear more about where you're going with this project. It sounds exciting. Is carrying passengers for hire part of your game plan? There's an old protectionist law still on the books in the U.S. called the Jones Act. As I understand it, it requires all passenger vessels that sail between U.S. ports (picking up passengers one place, dropping them off in another, both in the U.S.) to be built in the U.S. The criterion is where the hull is built, so I think if you built the hull in San Diego and then moved it across the border to Mexico and did everything else there you'd still have a "Jones Act vessel".

Here's a knowledgeable builder in your area, should you want to discuss your project, or aspects of it, with them: http://www.knightandcarver.com/

Fair Winds,
Stephen

[Milan]

Take a look at the works of couple of Dutch designers of "little" sailing boats:
Gerard Dijkstra http://www.gdnp.nl/
Andre Hoek http://www.hoekdesign.nl/
Olivier F. van Meer http://www.oliviervanmeer.nl/index2....uare%20Riggers

Also, I think Thomas E. Colvin and George Buehler might be interesting to you.
http://www.thomasecolvin.com/larger_...ent_sailin.htm
http://www.georgebuehler.com/

[Stephen Ditmore]

Benford appears to have written a paper on the design of Antonia:

Abstracts: 5th Chesapeake Sailing Yacht Symposium

Design Development of a 40m Sailing Yacht

Jay R. Benford, Naval Architect, Friday Harbor, WA

The development of the design of the 40 meter (130 foot) ketch ANTONIA is followed from the commission to the beginning of construction. The requirements of the client are reviewed against the final design. The scantlings for the basic structure are presented, along with their evolution. The progression of the rig from the original thoughts to the final version is presented. The stability and floodable length curves are shown. Lines, construction, sail plan, in addition to a call for designers to resume a more constructive attitude towards publishing original design work for the advancement of the profession.

Was this boat ever built? Does anyone have photos?

[Milan]

If I remember well, she is built, in Brazil, taking advantage of cheap wood and labor. Hull was cold molded.

[Stephen Ditmore]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

The numbers I've seen are in the 30%-40% range.

I've tried to find a source on this. So far I haven't succeeded. I'm suspecting the numbers above might have included deck.... so my guess would be 25% for hull, 5% for ballast, and 10% for deck & trunk cabin. I figure that leaves 20% for machinery & systems, 20% for rig, rigging, & deck hardware, and 20% for interior, finish & whatever electronics were not part of the initial machinery installation. 10% total design cost would be in addition, making 110%. If the systems manufacturers or the builder is doing some of the design, then what you actually pay a naval architect can be a little less, as long as the limits of the naval architect's responsibility are clearly defined.

These are wild guesses.... does anyone have a case study against which we can check them?