Coastal Motorsailing

[souljour2000]

This is an offshoot of a thread on motorsailors that I thought fizzled way too early.
I was finally able to take a trip of more than 60 miles in my H-20...a good bit of which involved cruising 1-2 miles off the beaches in SW Florida. I motor sailed about a quarter to a third of the time. I like taking some of the load off my 5hp Tohatsu when I need to motor...as well as any gains in speed when the winds are light.

If you don't mind sacrificing some upwind performance it seems like there are some great benefits to motor/sailing for the coastal cruiser or long-distance cruiser.

In a tough lee-shore situation...and singlehanded...isn't it safer to bag the idea of fighting into the wind and simply fire the motor in neutral...and (assuming it starts) then furl the sails and head into the pilot-house out of the elements... and proceed under power off the lee shore without spending excess mental and physical energy that might be needed later ? Go with the flow makes more sense to me than some macho captain exercise to see if I can avoid the lee shore by busting my arse trying to get everything my rig can get to windward...Everyone should attempt to practice (clawing off a lee shore) now and then say,when your not cruising, because you never know if the motor will start for sure.

In a 20-foot sloop that is cruising 8-20 miles between the safety of inlets/passes of the Gulf , if I am in light air and not moving very fast then I am putting myself and craft in jeopardy of T-storms or mis-forecast weather. I am going to turn on the motor and use what breeze I have in the sails . Even if it's mostly apparent wind..I am getting something and ,at half-throttle I'm only using about a quart of fuel an hour in my 5hp tohatsu. Later..when the winds pick up I will pull the motor out and not have lost any time waiting for wind.

The only real downside to me is mostly aesthetic... waves/ spray may force one to go inside the pilot-house when a pilot of an aft open cockpit boat would just be feeling his oats and enjoying the scenery....I like being outside as much as possible and I don't like seeing the world thru a window-frame so to speak.

[rwatson]

I couldnt agree more. I am currently having my boat designed with sails, a big outboard and a decent cabin. I want to get inside out of bad weather, but still be able sit outside and sit on the rails while sailing etc.

The NA is revising the cabin to give a bit more indoor helmsman view.

[souljour2000]

That is a very sporty-looking design RW...keep us updated on the progress of your project...what sort of rig do you guys have in mind...I can't tell by the drawing if there is room to walk up the sidedecks..or whether one just climbs forward via the cabin house deck...I really like the latter with smaller boats...allows much more roomier cabin widths ..a solid wide deck to hoist sails from...and it is easier and safer than threading along the rails trying to dodge the stays and so forth..If I was going to build one I would design it so you can climb onto the cabin roof and make your way forward...keep us informed... I am also very fond of the Buckler 23 design that is over in the motor-sailing forum..there are tons of pics of this boat that people have kindly posted. It is a very good design as well...and has given me the idea to re-engineer my lowly 1983 Hunter 20. It would be a huge project but it beckons...

[Fanie]

Power only does offer a much less cluttered deck but it is expensive to just motor all the time. Motoring is faster to wind than sailing. Sailing is fun, and it's free. A motor sailor does offer both so it is in my opinion a good combination to have.

Rwatson, don't be so darn mysterious. How about some info on your build ?

[whoosh]

yes soul jour
I agree with what youa re doing, esp. with your small boat Unless you had a very efficient powerful rig, and light weight, you would be sitting there for days
Most (cruisers) motorsail when it gets light, and when it gets heavy most large cruisers still motor sail
Very few cruisers know much about sail trim, and a weekend on a racing boat would benefit most, as you can learn more there in a day than i 10 years cruising)
you may be a gung ho racer, excuse me if youa re, but if not, there is a book THE BEST OF SAIL TRIM written by a whole bag of authors, I have leanrt heaps from it, and I have been sailing since age 13, raced dinghys, but learnt from thsi book, even now

[Doug Lord]

I designed and built this little motorsailer 26 years ago. It used a Yanmar 15hp diesel . It was a prototype that was never produced but I had a lot of fun with it. Had a center cockpit with wheel steering so I could sit outside with no pilothouse obstruction, yet I could go inside in bad weather where there was a second helm station. Had a "winged" keel that acted like a flopper stopper-dramatically improving its motion as well as improving the boats sailing performance. 700 miles range on power only. Had a lot of fun with it but it really wasn't a "Florida" boat-drew too much. In my spare time now I'm designing a small(14') power cat motorsailer runabout for use on the intercoastal and Banana River. I hope to build it in a few years-shallow draft and outboard or electric power+ sail.
---The motorsailer was based on the TS-18-the white boat below- that I designed for Rodney Thompson who produced 88 of them.

[Fanie]

All I can say is you guys are lucky to be so close to the sea and have the resources. I have asked around untill I got blue in the face to get some sailing experience on a catamaran and something in the region of 10m. I have been on many boats but never on a sailing cat sailing. They are probably scared I'll throw up on them or something

I'll build the friggin cat and get my own experience if it is not locally available. I'll tow the thing to Moz and get to know it there. The cat sailing community is a bunch of snobs here.

[whoosh]

Originally Posted by Fanie

All I can say is you guys are lucky to be so close to the sea and have the resources. I have asked around untill I got blue in the face to get some sailing experience on a catamaran and something in the region of 10m. I have been on many boats but never on a sailing cat sailing. They are probably scared I'll throw up on them or something

I'll build the friggin cat and get my own experience if it is not locally available. I'll tow the thing to Moz and get to know it there. The cat sailing community is a bunch of snobs here.

pity, give me your address I will post the book, its yours

[Fanie]

Hi Whoosh,

I'll take the book if you really don't want it, thank you very much, but at least let me pay the shipping. Good grief, I sound that pathetic ??

There are few things I haven't been able to figger out for myself, one of them is to understand how females think, but then it seems most of you guys haven't either

Over the last 35 years I've built a couple of boats, I've built an AC cobra from scratch, rebuilt and supped up my last 1100 GSX Suzuki, and I had 3 (0 ->100km/hr under 2 seconds, just have to brag on that one a bit ), taught myself to write s/ware and design electronics and PCB's and some other minor personal achievements... so I'm almost 10% confident I'll master the sailing thing also. That said, thanks to the help from you guys on this forum I can make that at least 50%.

I guess the rest is up to me to get the thing built and get it to actually float. This IS the Boat Design forum, right

Bloody insomnia. Any advice on that other than 'go to sleep' ?

Er... I could maybe just mention - not to sound so arrogant - I have succeeded in buggering some things up too I have a guardian angel (really) and one day (not too soon I hope) I will have this eye to eye talk with my guardian angel on a couple of times when...

[whoosh]

i love the book, but reckon my serious sailing days are gone
you and that Apex bloke neevr seem to sleep

I leave the pc on all day, check the markets, where I am involved, stopped fretting abt it ages ago
i Fiddle with new boat, and cahnged all the pads in sons car in last 2 hours
I like bikes, last was Norton 650ss, but road a few Hondas of mates , one BOL,D,or which ran like a bent snake
seeing as you are bragging:) I wire the boats, but am not licenced to sign off on AC, I do all the ss, all the welding forming and painting, and have not worked for 8 years, but thats all going to cahnge
Ok send address I sent all manner of software all around the globe to folk here, all licenced and paid for naturally
Bill has worked tirelessly on our project for free, who is Bill? tell you when you send your details, , oh those buggers over there wont steal it will they?
at 1600 hrs TO 1800 iI have some red wine, adn am never on pc after that, thats cos all my girlfreinds are in Europe

[souljour2000]

Doug's TS 18 was a neat design...thanks for the pics Doug...when i had a Buc 18 I always wished it could have a small cabin...hang in there Fanie...!

[rwatson]

I am concentrating on the 'portable' motor sailor, having water ballast and being trailerable.

I dont think you can spend much time on the water in anything on much under 26ft, there just isnt the room. Having an outboard saves a lot of room, and 50hp will get you places fast when required. To my mind the whole basis of Motor/Sailors is convenience and comfort. Room for a toilet and shower, decent sleeping and eating facilities too. The water ballast system will contain freshwater 'bladders', so you can start your week on the water with 400 litres if clean drinking.washing water, and come back to port with 400 litres of seawater keeping you upright. If you dont have to spend money on mooring fees, that is a bonus as well.

Re Sailing performance, not all us crusty old farts are sail trim illiterates whoosh, so dont worry. I have done a lot of time 'around the sticks', and good sail performance is being designed in. I have specified twin daggerboards and rudders, a self tacking jib along with the reasonable sailing hull profile (it should plane in a decent blow). I am also installing a rotating mast (Bermudan Rig)

The twin boards will allow me to experiment with asymetrical fins. The idea is that the leeward fin (with the chord on keel side) will be lowered, and the windward one raised. This should provide extra lift towards the mark. As the twin boards are canted 'outward', the boats heel will cause the board to become vertical and perform better. Its a poor mans canting keel system.

Oh - and did I mention containerable ?. ...