Cherub Design

[Petros]

Originally Posted by JackMontana

I think you're right about the Home Depot thing, but couldn't you just set a max amount of $? ..... Another problem would be hardware and lines. My Hope Depot is low on Vectran and Harken cheek blocks.

The way to limit $ is to prove material costs with purchase records, or set a required buy out price. Anyone can claim any boat for $500 or whatever. they do this with low cost car racing. That does not prevent people from spending more, they just expect to build another car for the next race.

No need to use costly Vectran or Harken hardware on a racing dingy, you just use what you can find at Home Depo, or fab it from raw stock. It will bring the creative problem solving skills in the builder out.

I think the way to limit exotic construction methods is to have specific rules on construction methods.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by gggGuest

Personally speaking my time is too precious to waste it on poor materials. And sails made out of plastic tarp or whatever are so nasty to use and perform so badly that they would only lead to frustration. No matter matter what you build the hull out of spars gear etc is still going to add up to a significant sum of money so I want a result that I can be proud of and enjoy using...

I won't get much satisfaction from taking my boat to the sailing club and saying, look I built it myself, it looks like hell, is a pain in the neck to sail and doesn't go very well, but I saved myself 15% of the cost by using inappropriate materials...

Hullform software from Australia will let you download a cut down version that is more than adequate for designing a straightforward racing dinghy like a Cherub, and winning boats have been designed with its help.

I both completely agree and disagree with your points. How's that for logic?

I'm in the middle of a project I started to develop a low cost children's boat. There was a lot of input from designers and builders worldwide, as I posted the design brief on Sailing Anarchy and invited input.

The final concept, after a lot (months) of input and refinement was to build a low cost, building center product boat that was by design "disposable" after two or four years, acknowledging that kids of the target age (7-13) are growing so fast they will outgrow the boat in the four year time span.

The first prototype was built (for a friend's daughter), sticking with the ultra-low cost theme and the first boat is now ready for paint. I'm pretty certain it will meet the criteria dead on. It was a father/daughter project, with the designer present to develop the build plan and help.

I'm building the second prototype (for my ten year old son), and I've decided to see if upgrading some of the build materials can produce a 20 year boat for a small incremental cost increase. Instead of construction adhesive, I've used West System epoxy.

Summary results so far:

Build cost for a "Home Depot" kids boat should total under $500 if careful material choices are made and labor is substituted for things like CNC cutting panels & foils. This is in Canadian dollars.

Build cost for my "upgraded" version will be around $700, adding in cost for the epoxy and supplies necessary (latex gloves, disposable rollers, brushes, solvents etc.).

Costs reported in the blog include a bunch of time reduction expense like CNC panel cutting, panic buying and local hardware stores and overbuys due to poor planning. I'm confident my above estimates reflect reality in Canada.

Given that the project concept was a parent/child build project, and that the target user is a proud child participant, the need to produce high quality acceptable for a club dinghy fleet is not a priority. Keeping focus that the happiness/pride/accomplishment of the child is more important than the parent's professional pride.

I've blogged the build at: Homebuilt Kid's Boat Blog. The blog makes more sense if you read it chronologically beginning to end instead of "last post first" as it shows.

--
Bill

[Petros]

Originally Posted by gggGuest

Personally speaking my time is too precious to waste it on poor materials.

This sounds rather arrogant and snobbish, exactly what I want to combat in boating. If your time is so valuble why are you wasting it dorking around on the internet?

I have built 9 boats almost all from salvaged lumber and materials, many of them quite nice. I have enjoyed everyone of them and I do not worry about scratching them because I do not have a lot of money tied up in them. I enjoy building them as much as using them. While you might pour your time and money into your "perfect" sail boat, I have built several and long enjoyed on the water them before you even get launched.

The last boat I built I have exactly $35 in out of pocket costs. It is a 14 ft sloop with white oak steam bent ribs and doug fir stringers, it has stainless steel stays, a laminated fir mast and boom. Laminated pine dagger board and rudder, and cedar floor boards. It uses Tyvek house wrap for sails. It is light and fast and fun, I entered in a $50 sailboat race and won $100 with it. My daughters and I have sailed it in Puget Sound and many area lakes over the last several years. It was a creative challenge to design and build. It is pictured on this thread here:

Challenge: The 100$ boat!

My thoughts were along the same line, creating a "class" that is fun, fast and cheap, perhaps with a $100 limit or a bit higher, and see how many show up. NO SNOBS ALLOWED. Sorry, you are all out.

[JackMontana]

Petros, your "$100" boat looks great and I'm sure it's a blast to sail. I reiterate that I think it'd be cool to see a regatta like this. Different boats for different folks. Bistros, you're kid's boat is awesome, I pointed Petros to the SA discussion earlier in this thread. Awesome work.

If I might steer the discussion back to my topic though...

I realize that you guys don't have any Cherub designs lying around. It's definitely a UK and OZ class. Steve, I've tried sending an email to Skip but I'm not sure if I have a working email addy for him. I tried St. John's website (I gather that he's the sailing coach there) but they don't have an online directory. Hopefully I got it right and he'll get back with me. Thanks for the tip. The guys on the UK Cherub forum have been very, very helpful.

I wonder if any of you folks have any experience using the Hullform software? There are two offset tables of older design Cherubs on the UK page but I can't get them to load properly in the software. Searching "hullform" on this site is, predictably, not very helpful.

Thanks a lot folks!

J

I'm wond