CBTF(Canting Ballast Twin Foil)

I've long thought that CT's position that foils would kill the Moth class was nuts.I read a lot --both mags and websites but unfortunately being in the states I'm fairly isolated.I've personally talked to Moth sailors across the world that speak of a resurgence BECAUSE of foilers.
I know there is a lot of excitement in various places in the states about monofoilers because of the Moth but I only know of two foiler Moths in the whole USA-both in San Fran. I remember reading Marco's post on some forum recently about a new fleet starting in Italy thanks to foilers. From what I've been led to believe there was a fairly big turnout in Black Rock for the Worlds.
I find it hard to understand all that and then have Andy say that it is posible that foilers will kill the Moth class-something CT has been saying for years.
I guess from my position in the states it's hard to know what the facts are regarding Moth's but I do know that foiler Moths have inspired many people here to see if they couldn't come up with an easier to sail monofoiler -Steve Clark is working on one as are several others.
As to Moths I guess time will tell-but man what an inspiration they are!

[Andy P]

I meant relatively boring.

Conventional moths are fast, fun, good racing and pretty exciting in moderate to fresh breeze.
In light winds a bit of painful kneeling and continuous balancing.

BUT foiling in enough breeze is much faster, more fun ( racing getting there now) and very exciting!

First you need to learn to sail a normal moth so it becomes second nature -and can sail with your eyes shut for a while ( 30 secs is pretty good).
And then you are good and fast ( -er than most dinghies).

Then you can foil, and it's even faster!

But of course non foiling is then RELATIVELY slow and boring.

A bit like short boarding in strong wind is more fun and faster than sailing a long plank board in light winds.

The foiler developments have stimulated interest, new boats and new fleets in other countries, so the class is not dying, but changing.
Ther may come a split later when there are many foilers racing.
Maybe foilers only going to big flat water events if wind is good, and normal boats to smaller waters or light winds.

Just found out from Jim Pugh that the new Reichel/Pugh 100' Wild Oats will be CBTF-the largest to date! That will put the BTP's on notice!

[usa2]

That will be an incredible showdown next year in the Sydney to hobart than. Maximus, Skandia, Wild Oats, Nicorette(maybe),Konica Minolta, and possibly some other designs. Does anyone know how the Alfa Romeo and AAPT projects are coming?

2, there is no better system for a 100' race boat-I'm 100% convinced of that!*
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* Particularly if Reichel/Pugh design it......

[usa2]

i know your convinced of it, but we need actual results to actually prove that it is a better system. Many things and people suggest otherwise. Pyewacket against Mag 80 wasnt exactly a clear showing of superiority, as Pyewacket beat her by only 24 minutes while carrying much more sail in a light wind race. Add to that a longer waterline and the results are distorted. Also, a 70' fixed keel sloop finished a minute after Mag 80 and 2 minutes ahead of Genuine Risk... GR should be faster than pyewacket so something was messed up in that race.

Well, I think it will become pretty clear in the next couple of years...

[usa2]

what exactly makes you think that having a forward foil in the water downwind is efficient?

Aside from the in depth answers I've already given here are a few more good reasons why CBTF is the king of canting keel technology-so far:
-1st and 2nd Antigua Race Week 2004
-Line honors Newport to Bermuda demonstration Division-unofficial course record-two CBTF boats whup a waterballast boat the same LOA
-Heineken Regatta 2004-Z86 1st and 3rd
-2003 Admirals Cup dominated by Wild Oats
-"Not only did Wild Oats dominate the Big Boat Division at the competitive 2002 Hahn Premium Race Week at Hamilton Island ,she displayed the speed of a 90'yacht."
-Wild Oats(Wild Joe) record breaking line and handicap win in Pittswater to Coffs Harbor Race.
-Syndey to Mooloobaba Race March 2005 old Wild Oats line honors.
-New (66') Wild Oats line honors and First Place overall on IRC handicaps; Australia Day Regatta
-December 04 Targe(Wild Joe/Wild Oats) overall winner of Rolex Trophy
-September 04 Pye first overall Maxi Rolex Cup
New Wild Oats(66') second place
-April 2005- Pyewacket line honors Ensenada Race
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From Reichel/Pugh website and others

[usa2]

but none of those victories except Pyewackets most recent were against other canting keel boats. Mari-Cha IV was beaten in Antigua, but she wasnt designed for bouy racing.

According to a guy on SA there is another 100' CBTF boat being built in Australia by Neville Crichton who initially had great reservations about the technology. That makes two-amazing!
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Interesting article here about the NEW 66' Wild Oats beating Konica Minolta AND Skandia on corrected time just before the Sydney-Hobart Race. She was exrremely close in boat speed to the one waterballast and the other "TMF" race boat-both much larger.Just imagine what a CBTF boat the same length would do!
http://www.torresen.com/sailing/cont...ves/002177.php

[yokebutt]

Will Doug ever agree with Chris? No.
Will Chris ever agree with Doug? No again.
As is my habit, I'm only being facetious as usual, but, realistically, for chrissakes, let it go already!

Yokebuttocks.

[CT 249]

Err, Doug and I let it go as soon as Andy, who is closer to the action, entered the question a week or so ago.

Actually Doug and I HAVE agreed; just once. It caused us so much shock our doctors warned us never to agree again.

I totally disagree...
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Having given the matter some thought and to avoid being disagreable I've decided not to disagree totally...

I read somewhere-an interview with Jim Pugh I think -where they are going to be doing a 48 foot CBTF for series production; anybody heard anything about it?