Canting Keels In Production Yachts

Did any of the boats have strain sensors continously monitoring different points so we can tell how much more beef needs to be built in, where it is needed? It could SATAL. trans. without bothering the crew.-----------------------------Or scare the cra- out of them, if they saw the overloads they were putting on the boat.

 

On his race and finishing Mike Golding said this morning:
"Vincent and Jean (first and second) just sailed so well. Even when we turned in Biscay there was only 50 miles to the lead and there was still a possibility of winning. We all know that sailing can be a very cruel game and things can change and Biscay presented one last opportunity and we were all pushing, pushing, pushing to see what we could break the hold that Vincent had but it was too strong. Yesterday I was going to come in to Les Sables d´Olonne disappointed with not being the winner, but happy with my race. I can´t complain abut my race. I´ve had a perfect race. I have a great boat, a great sponsor and a great team."
Having finished third, at one stage making up a deficit of 811 miles to lead the race for two rankings, Golding said “Everything about this race is excactly what I came back to it for. That is until the keel came off yesterday afternoon, which is a weird thing to say, and now I just feel lucky to finish. Lucky to be third and lucky to still have my boat. The boat has taken care of me. I’m just happy to be here.
Vincent and Jean (first and second) just sailed so well.

 

This is getting a little off track, but I'm going to be a fanboy for a moment. All three sailed tremendous races.

Vincent showed himself a superstar meteorologist and strategist. He simply knew more about what was going to happen than anyone else, and used it correctly. Whenever he was doing something odd, it turned out to be the right solution.

Jean probably sailed better and harder, and kept up the slugfest with Vincent for the entire race, despite not always guessing right on the weather. I think Jean was out-thought by Vincent, but stayed in the race by out-sailing him.

And Mike, of course, a staggering record, simply sailed his brains out, made up a 4 day deficit, and then in the dramatic conclusion somehow managed to keep the wet side down for 50 miles without a keel! That's some seamanship. Nick did roughly the same stunt earlier, but he used his engine, if I recall correctly. It was impressive as hell both times

All three smashed the previous monohull record to pieces. Any one of their three times would have been enough to make them the fastest monohull, and the second fastest solo sailor in any type of hull.

 

Keels always fall of if you don't attach them right. So do doors, the canoe on your cartop and the occational sailor who forgets why he quit drinking.]

I once killed a Hard Drive rated at 15G by dropping it 12 inches. Whoever invented that rating must not have known of the concept "intended purpose" (freefall at 15G is not really common in computers).

When a keel falls of, it it usually because one or more component, overstressed for an extended period of time, break. Getting the calculations right is an engineering task not a design task.

Maybe some of those teams need fewer architecs and designers and more engineers???

 

If the engine said " More thickness and weight in the keel area. " I do not know if he would get a bonus for a better design.

 

Congradulations!!

It might have been a rather dejected and slump-shouldered Mike Golding that sailed across the finish line of the Vendee Globe in the early hours of this morning, if the keel had still been attached to his Open 60 yacht Ecover. But having been forced to nurse his boat for the last 14 hours across the Bay of Biscay - with only his flooded water ballast tanks and twin daggerboards as barely adequate stabilisers for the stricken yacht - it was an elated and jubilant Golding that reached Les Sables d'Olonne Friday. He is the first person ever to have finished an ocean race without a keel. (ed note: Well not exactly, most multihulls don't have keels )

He thrust his arms aloft and fired off red flares, very much as Vincent Riou had done little more than 24 hours earlier in celebration of his Vendee victory. After what Golding had been through the previous afternoon, faced with the prospect of retiring from a 24,000-mile race just 50 miles from the finish, he too was celebrating victory - victory simply in having completed the course. "Having this happen to me has made me realise just how important third place is to me," smiled Golding at his press conference today. "It's made third feel pretty good."

Golding returned to rapturous applause in the French port Friday morning. The crowd hung on his every translated word as he recounted the extraordinary events of the previous afternoon. "I was sailing in 20 to 25 knots of wind, with two reefs in the mainsail and the Solent. So the boat was well loaded, well powered up. Suddenly I felt the boat lean over from what I thought was a gust of wind. I jumped into the cockpit to release the mainsheet." When releasing the mainsheet failed to bring the boat more upright, Golding was concerned. He went through the boat, trying to find the source of the problem. "I tried to dial the keel up, I checked I didn't have water ballast in the wrong tanks. Then I went to the edge of the boat to look for the keel and couldn't see it."

This is when Golding got really concerned. He went down below to peer through the endoscope that allows him to view the keel below the hull. "I looked through the endoscope at the top of the keel, but that was inconclusive. So then I opened up the escape hatch underneath the boat,put a diving mask on and put my head under water. That was interesting, because the boat was still doing six knots at the time. I looked under the boat and there was a keel there, but it was in a strange position."

Golding was scratching his head in bewilderment, not quite able to compute what had happened. "You expect your keel to be attached to the boat. It's something that you take for granted," he said. But when he looked underneath the boat again, the keel really had gone. In retrospect, Golding believes that the first time he looked the keel "was hanging by a thread". The next time he looked, it had snapped off altogether, almost flush with the bottom of the hull.

"Suddenly the boat was three tons lighter, and I thought 'Great, here we go,' joked Golding. The reality was that the skipper was seriously worried, not only for the boat but for his own safety. "My immediate thought was retirement. I thought there was no option about carrying on." But having dropped the sails and flooded the ballast tanks with water, Golding had time to weigh up other options. He decided to hoist some a staysail and a fully-reefed main - a virtual handkerchief of cloth compared with his normal sail plan.

To get his head round this new way of sailing, Golding said: "I imagined I was on a Thames barge with daggerboards and no keel, just that instead of carrying a cargo of 10 tons of coal I was carrying a few tons of water." Gradually the 'Thames barger' gained confidence with his new set-up and even unfurled the Solent sail to generate more power. The boat picked up in speed and was averaging 7 knots, even touching 9 knots at one point. When Golding crossed the finish line at 03 hours 17 minutes GMT, the relief was palpable, the reward immense. - www.mikegolding.com

Updated Vendee Globe gallery: www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/05/vendee/

 

Learning from Experiences

Vincent Riou, winner of the Vendee Globe, spoke exclusively to Sue Pelling from yachtingworld.com about the Vendee Globe Race and his views on the current keel dilemma. Here's a brief excerpt:

Avoiding weather systems is one thing but experiencing a disaster such as losing a keel is something that's surely on the minds of most yachtsmen as they head south. The recent spate of keel loses particularly during the Vendee Globe is a big issue right now and one that undoubtedly needs dealing with before the situation gets worse. Commenting on how the issue could be dealt with and whether there should be some sort of working party set up within IMOCA to address the situation, Riou said: "Interestingly they have tried to do that before. The architects agreed but the builders didn't want to do it. Maybe now after so many problems with keels in the Vendee Globe, they will. I too think they should work together using the knowledge of everyone, allowing everyone to talk about the various experiences and come up with an agreement.

"There is actually a rule in other classes such as the VO70s where they have to agree on certain coefficients. I say why not to that but I'm conscious that it's virtually impossible to check it and it would cost a lot of money because each competitor would have to give their keel plan to the IMOCA, and the IMOCA would have to pay someone to do the calculations in structure. "I think the architects should make the most of each other's experiences and we could force them to communicate where each one has to say the situation they are in to enrich the collective so we don't do anything stupid.

In an effort to defend his title and become the first ever two-times winner of the Vendee Globe Riou is adamant he'll do the next race in four year's time. Thoughts on a new boat? Riou concluded: "Yes, if I did it again it would definitely be in a new boat."
- Sue Pelling/Yachting World, full story: http://tinyurl.com/4nuk8

 

If a builder and a architect of a race boat can't agree, why would they accept a engineer, unless he was needed to hold the door open for them.

 

Nigel Irens on the keel problem....

The recent spate of keel failures particularly in the Vendee Globe where three boats lost their keels including the British sailor Mike Golding whose keel dropped off just 50 miles from the finish line in Les Sables d"Olonne last week, has led to debates about how to resolve the situation and whether a designer/boatbuilder working party should be set up set the ball rolling.

Irens added his view on the current keel situation: "I think we're in the equivalent situation we were in when we were learning about over-stiff panels on hulls. Clearly something is wrong, and clearly when there's a whole batch of boats with possibly the same problem something will have to be done. Obviously they [design teams] will go back to the drawing board and try and find out what it was and make it better for next time. The thing to remember is that we as designers do as best we can but sometimes there are failures. But in a way it's an advancement of what we're doing and we learn from when something breaks, so that input is very important and they just seem to have hit a problem on the keels."

from an interview with YachtingWorld

 

canting future

So what do you think, Brian?

 

I wouldn't strike them out of the picture because of a few failures. I think you must be bold to advance the art, and sometimes that can get you in trouble, trying new things. But to have never ventured forth...nah.

Would I go out and sail one of these vessels across the ocean, with this big moveable lead weight under me, and all kinds of hazards to hit? I don't think so. I'll stick with multihulls.

I would point out to anyone interested, Nigel's comment, 'we were learning about over-stiff panels on hulls' of the ORMA 60's per my posting at http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=37049#post37049

Regards,Brian

 

canting future

Yeah, I think the canters will improve but as for me-at least right now give me an unballasted monofoiler or a small multifoiler any time...

 

We are now starting production of the Backman 18 as a kit for amateur builders. I know, it's not really a cruising boat (basic camping facilities) and it does not have a canting keel. I just wanted to mention it anyway

 

This is a production boat. It is an all carbon boat and it is not more expensive than the typical boat of this size, on the contrary.

It is an "OFF-LIMITS SINGLEHANDED PILOTHOUSE PERFORMANCE CRUISER" with an optional canting keel.

http://www.shipman.dk/articles/?m0=6&m1=91

About price: " Pricing considerations

Mainly the budgets in production boats is appr. 1 M Eu in the low-tech level and appr. 2 M Eu in the carbon/epoxy construction (like Swan 601 or Wallyno).
None of these boats, however, fulfill the brief for a shorthanded high/performance ocean flyer.
Shipman 63 should be placed competitively at appr. 1,2 M Eu ex tax including a retractable bow-thruster, a genset, A-C, desalinator but ex sails."

http://www.shipman.dk/

I like this one, but I have to say that when I will buy one , I will command the lifting keel option ( I am sure that the performance is enough for me). Of course a Gentleman racer (one that likes to win races in a comfortable way) will prefer the canting one.

 

Paulo, I remember that the topic went about cantin keels.

The design looks absolutely gorgious and I believe the major part of claims that hey make. Although - for practical reasons - I would not opt for a canting keel but rather - as Paulo wants also - a lifting keel. In a boat of 50 - 60 ft that can be hardly an obstacle.

The price is something different