Canting keels falling off supermaxis - how many?

Why shouldn't there be a separate class for powered hydraulics? Or why cant they use manually powered pumps like the AC cats? If you truly believed in "run what you brought" you should support allowing multies in the SH race.
I also think its probably a stretch to imply that the canters are reaching the point of being as safe as a fixed keel, these boats spend more time in the yard than sailing, basically they receive continuous maintainance like an aircraft.

Steve.

 

It's ridiculous in your opinion - which is in a distinct minority here.

As I've said many times, I don't care if they run an engine to power their deck gear. I merely think that doing this makes them a different class of sailing vessel and they should be recognised as such. Just like multihulls are sailboats but a distinctly different class to monohulls.

Come on, the last AC proved that hydraulic systems could be powered by muscle alone. Let the crew spend their time cranking away.

The sooner the multihulls get allowed into the Sydney-Hobart the better. Then the canting keel monohulls likely won't get line honours any more and everyone (except you) will rapidly forget about them.

The canting keel boats are fast, but so is a drag racer. If you like drag racers, fine. Personally I think they're dead boring.

PDW

 

Doug ... seriously? Fastest 100 footer? You know better than to make such statements.

Look at the passage records for single hulled boats even with canting keels and all. Compare them to equal length multi's.

Fastest 100ft WAFI perhaps. But far from the fastest 100 foot power boat and far from the fastest 100 foot sail boat.

 

Line honours always was! The real race is back further... you are just referring to the show. This is after all a race of many parts, line honours is really only bragging rights.

Multis... yup sure, would LOVE to see it!

I would also like to see more One Design divisions or ideally a globally recognised say 50' offshore one design. A sailors class that goes beyond the cheque book race that is offshore racing! Honestly I had more fun doing 3 x J24 races in a day than I ever did going to Hobart.

Still live and let live!

 

More negative rep! You guys are cowards, ID yourself if you want to take a swipe! Pack of girls.

Can you believe this post...

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sa...f-supermaxis-how-many-51966-3.html#post717223

Was cited for personal insult!

PS:> This is my way of dealing with things as I don't do negative rep just because I disagree with a guy.

 

One thing that amuses me with all this is that I can imagine similar discussions after Amaryllis started winning races. Well that was too much wasn't it, she had to be stopped... unfortunately "da boyz" did stifle the idea.

 

The other bit Doug doesn't address is the limited range of his favoured few boats. As I've said, a Tahiti Ketch could beat WOXI in a decent length race.

They're drag racers that have to run an engine or they're dead in the water. Nothing wrong with that but they should be recognised and classed accordingly.

PDW

 

That is unlikely to happen IMO, the division would be too clear. People would simply follow the part of the race THEY like. Kind of similar to now, line honours for the spectacle and the masses and handicap for the sailors. It would just offer more to watch...

Anyway, bring it on! Although I do fear we will hear howling as one or two of them go over their nose and need a rescue... bound to happen really.

 

Yeah... I'd take that bet. Even with no fuel, keel fixed down and limited canvas, as a result, I think she'd win that race.

 

Amaryllis wasn't stopped; that's just a myth. The claim that the cats were banned by the establishment just is not true, and now that the internet has given us access to information from Herreshoff's day, such as his own letters which can be found on the Mystic Seaport Museum website, the myth should be stamped out.

Amaryllis was DSQd from just one race, where she was up against workboat-style boats, but was given a special prize. She then inspired further cats by Herreshoff and others, which raced for several years around New York, New Orleans, San Francisco and other areas in a special cat class, just as Herreshoff wanted. He did not actually want them to race against the monos; he was known for radical boats but he learned that cruiser/racer types were better for the sport, which is why he created the Universal Rule to stamp out 'freaks' like Reliance.

Far from being "stopped", the cats were raced by yacht club commodores, wealthy stockbrokers, and perhaps drug dealers. The cats were simply treated and encouraged like all other boats. For example, the first all-club regatta of the 1878 season featured cats as one of just 5 classes. The Empire YC ran cat races. The Commodore of the Brooklyn YC, a close rival of the NYYC, had a steam cat. The Commodore of the New Jersey YC owned and raced the cat Jessie. The NYYC - WHICH WAS FOUNDED BY SOMEONE WHO HAD A CAT - allowed Meigs' cat Neried to race. The predecessor of US Sailing went out of its way to encourage and favour cats at its first regatta.

Although they were allowed to race just like the monos were, the cats died out for several reasons. Nat said that they were strictly racing machines and couldn't carry any more acommodation than a tent. Francis reckoned they were a bit dull to sail a lot of the time. Herreshoff gave them up for building reasons and Fearon, the other big cat builder, was a shady character who people may have disliked, with good reason (he was the guy who allegedly ran a drug den IIRC).

It's understandable that the Amaryllis ban myth survived so long; it's a potent story. Problem is that it's wrong. Maybe the real significance of the Amaryllis myth is that it shows that many people really want to believe that there is an all-powerful yachting establishment that hates change.

My last sail (yesterday) was on our new cat, which was the latest boat I bought (and which I am really enjoying). My last inshore regatta was on a cat, my last offshore series on a shorthanded tri. No one could reasonably call me anti-multi, but the plain and simple historical truth is that there were no "boyz" to stifle Amaryllis, and that she was not stopped. It's just that people of the day preferred monos for various reasons.

Many of the same sort of comments could be made about modern boats. Most people don't want to sail the fastest boats, and therefore they struggle to get critical mass. Our boat is arguably the fastest two-sail cat in the country but the class is dead, just like many other really fast classes I love are dead. So why can't we accept that if we want a class to be really popular, it's got to be more accessible- and the same thing applies to the Hobart fleet.


PS - as I said earlier, I've never given you or anyone else a bad rep. I did think, though, that calling someone "a girl" as a mild insult is pretty backward thinking, especially for someone who seems to think that they are progressive.

 

I don't think anyone gives a rats *** about the canting keel, its just the running an engine that pisses folks off, if that was ruled out and they used manually powered hydraulics I know I for one would not have the negative impression of these boats I have now. Im all for design advances but if you NEED an engine running its a freakin motorboat.

Steve.

 

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Gee, I'm sorry to see people being pissed off about canting keels-again. Tell me Steve, how would you suggest they move a canting keel on a hundred footer?!

 

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It's the height of the abuse of that system to give someone bad rep for their opinion!! Whoever did it is a pitiful individual with zero class!
It makes me sick to see that......
Those same type individuals give low ratings to threads whose subject they don't like-they are the collaborators of this society and would be the first to stifle freedom of expression if they had the power. Absolutely sickening type of forum creep.......

 

Maybe not all-powerful, but powerful enough, as L. Francis learned in the "Live Yankee" affair. "Similar contrivances," indeed

Cheers,

Earl

 

First, bad assumption on your part, no doubt deliberate. I for one am not 'pissed off' about canting keels. I'm 'pissed off' that people like you refuse to admit that having to run an engine to work your boat puts you in a different class to boats that use purely human power to work their systems. If you had the basic honesty to acknowledge this, that'd be a really good start.

Second, WRT moving the canting keel without running an engine, NMFP. You are assuming that a canting keel is an essential part of a sailboat. It's not, you just happen to like them. If you can't move it by human power, perhaps you should think of some innovative thing that does work.

PDW