Can it be done?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by CaptainBrenn, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. CaptainBrenn
    Joined: Dec 2014
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    CaptainBrenn New Member

    Hello, all. This is my first post and it's something of a whopper, but here goes:

    I've recently taken an interest in restoring an old triple-masted steel hulled auxiliary sailing vessel. Her keel was laid in 1932 and until 2000 she was reasonably well-kept and maintained. After that, her owner suffered from failing health and the funding dried up, so she has been docked in Morgan City, Louisiana wasting away ever since. I've restored a few fiberglass sailing yachts, but nothing that comes even close to this behemoth. So, I'm really hoping that someone can help me out with the particulars of just what such an undertaking will entail in cost and time.

    Condition wise, there is rust, oh god, is there ever, but her deck seems solid (from my waking around). Her hull is steel riveted and seems reasonably sound from what I can see (above the waterline). All of the exterior wood is basically rotted, but as she's not a yacht, there is little fancy wood work anywhere. I am also not holding out hope for the engine, generator, or electronics although I could be mistaken. She is still floating (albeit with the help of a few pumps) and has potential for miles; I'm just not sure if I can pull it off.

    Everything would be self-funded (I pull in just six figures) and I'm not especially in a rush.

    Honestly, I'm looking for a vessel that can be used as a research platform for science and my intentions would be to loan the vessel out to Universities at as reasonable a cost as possible. Humanitarian aid would be the secondary mission and I could fill in the down times carrying cargo (400 ton hold) and sail training.

    I'm attaching some photographs. I know I'm in for a serious task if I decide to proceed, but it is something which I feel would give my life meaning and fulfillment. Any help and or advice is appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Brenn
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    There cannot be many steel-hulled vessels of that vintage still floating. A professional surveyor would be a must to establish the state of play.
     
  3. Mikeemc
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    Mikeemc Junior Member

    Marine institutes have vessels in better shape for far less than it would take to put this one into charter condition.

    I love old vessels too, especially these kinds. It might be Ashamed to see the ol gal go but sometimes dreams are the power that moves us.

    I have an idea I'll pass it by you in a PM, when I get my thoughts together. Mike
     
  4. CaptainBrenn
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    CaptainBrenn New Member

    Thanks Mikeemc, I look forward to any ideas!
     
  5. JRD
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    JRD Senior Member

    Hi Brenn

    Short answer - No its a crazy idea.

    Given I don't think that's what you want to hear, I'll offer a long answer too.

    I think its a very generous sentiment to refurbish a ship that can be loaned out for ocean research etc. And for sure a survey is the right place to start.

    Now I am no expert on ships and have only done small scale refurbishments perhaps similar to what you have. I am a mechanical engineer and see the maintenance and project costs incurred in heavy industry every day. Every bone in my body would be saying turn around, walk away and don't look back.
    It will cost you $100s to get the surveyor to even visit and take a quick look. It will cost many $1,000s for a survey and report that is sufficiently detailed to even start looking at repair costs that should be estimated before making a decision.

    Most fabrication companies would not even take the time to prepare a quote for a job this size unless they received a detailed survey and felt very confident that you would be able to pay their progress claim at the end of each month once the job started.

    Projects like this are usually carried out by millionaires or charitable foundations if the vessel has some historical significance.. and perhaps a few crazed individuals. Its not often that the later arrive at launch day with their marriage, pension and sanity intact.

    If you look at the history of most projects like this you will see they grind to a halt every couple of years as they run out of money, volunteers and enthusiasm. Unless there is a large injection of all three, they never start again.

    From the day you sign the papers for this old girl you will be paying for the berthing, pumping out the water and every other incidental imaginable and that's before you even start work. If you change your mind the following day you will be responsible for the cost to remove and dispose of it. I would hazard a guess that someone is paying for the on-going dockage only because its cheaper than the immediate cost of disposal. (They are hoping you will come along and take it off their hands)


    Without being in this trade I would hazard a guess that it would cost most of your salary in a year to just keep it afloat and stop it deteriorating any further.

    Now there may be some skill or resource you can being to bear that would make this feasible, but don't sign anything until you totally understand what this hulk is going to do to you.

    Good luck, Jeff
     
  6. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    That was brutal JRD. Reality is often brutal. Your reply was most intelligent, sensible, advisedly.
     
  7. JSL
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    JSL Senior Member

    Speaking from experience with similar situations, JRD spells it out very well. On another front, check out what regulations you will be dealing with - USCG (CFR 46, etc), health authorities, state governments, etc....and of course your legal people.
     
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Price the cost of re-plating. That is what you need for starters. If the pumps are the only thing keeping her afloat, I am sure the plating is full of pinholes and the rivets are loose and/or corroded. Add to that re-wiring and re-plumbing.
     
  9. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    The cost of scrapping her after finding you are in over your head would buy you a new small house.
     
  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    In addition to all structural defects the boat certainly has, there are Regulations ancient ships can not meet if a huge investment is not made. Think you, for example (already cited USCG) in structural fire protection or the US Public Health for passenger vessels. To cite just two cases.
     
  11. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    first calls an expert to measure, with the right tool, the thicknesses of all sheets.
    Maybe later you'll see the boat in a different way.
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    It would seemingly be a miracle of preservation of the hull plating, if it isn't shot.
     
  13. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Brenn,

    Please read JRD's reply, than take a couple of days to thoroughly think it over. Then get back here and re-read JRD's post. It is one of the most realistic ones I've read so far on the issue of refits in this forum, though I understand that the guy is not in the marine business. Evidently, it works the same way in a wide range of manufacturing industries. :)

    This project requires a well-organized yard with professional workforce, a squad of trained and payed people. You cannot do it on your own with a help of a couple of friends (if that was ever a part of the plan).

    If it is this schooner Patricia: http://www.schoonerman.com/pat.htm then we are legally talking about a ship. The refit will have to be done in accordance with Class rules (likely Lloyd's or ABS) and hence you will be required to produce updated engineering drawings and technical reports with structural scantlings and indications of every single repair or modification which has to be done. And you will have the surveyor periodically visit the yard to check what you're doing and if you're doing it the way he likes it.

    Even the class society services alone will cost you bags of money. They are billing us something like $4,500.00 just for the approval of a refit of a single lifeboat davit on board an existing ship. Talking about a couple of pieces with typical overall dimensions of 5.0x1.5x1.0 meters - I cannot even imagine what do they ask for the whole ship.

    Whatever you decide, good luck!
     
  14. JRD
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    JRD Senior Member

    I'm not sure I meant to be brutal in any way, and I would apologize in a second had my reply offended him in any way. I just could not look at those photos and see a happy ending for anyone involved unless they have access to significant funding.
    Even if it is completed the cost of running this kind of craft is likely to exceed the income and will never recoup the refurbishment costs. There is a reason that only a tiny fraction of the worlds population owns 99% of the ships in use today.
     

  15. CaptainBrenn
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    CaptainBrenn New Member

    I did not take your reply as brutal in any way. I think our society tends to exaggerate on the adjectives. Rather, it was honest which is what I'm looking for. I'm under no illusions that this would be an easy or economic project, I just wanted an idea of what it would entail and so far, I'm beginning to feel like it's beyond my current means. Oh well. She would have (as I'm sure she once did) made one hell of a classy boat.
     
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