Can Chinese Junk actually circumnavigate?

[Wellydeckhand]

It seem a lot of my private time have been using to think about sail yacht, I been looking at alot of different design, suddenly I asked myself of the proberlity of advancement of slim chinese junk with lug rig sail able to do endurance journey circling the world.

I know, that is just a dream but the point is what recent advancement have the Chinese hidden from us about junk boat? Is that all we can find on the web site of countless expired page?

OK, we know the sail is easier to control and can be single driven, the sail itself is more fool proof in term of tear and wear.......... but the hull is big....... meaning more surface area to drag resistant. How slim can the thing get before it loose the characteristic of a junk?

WDH

Any info build up would be a boon to the web lack of infomation on Chinese junk discussion.

[Wellydeckhand]

What About the Junk Rig...?

Kasten Marine Design, Inc.

Suitability to Motor Sailors: A motor sailor can make excellent use of the junk rig. A motor sailor can be 100% sailing vessel, as well as being 100% capable under power. There are many other approaches as well, such as that taken by the Gulliver 46, the Greatheart 48 and the Greatheart 60 designs. These types have an emphasis on sail that is more on the order of around 60% to 70%. In other words, the sails are provided primarily for the purpose of auxiliary propulsion, rather than primary propulsion. The sails serve the function of being the "get-home" motive power in the case of engine failure. In addition, the sails provide extra boost while motoring when the wind favors. As a bonus, the sails and rig provide excellent roll dampening. For this purpose, the junk rig is ideal.

Wellydeckhand

[Wellydeckhand]

The Chinese Sail by Brian Platt

[SailDesign]

Welly,
The answer is "Yes"
Steve HTH

[Vega]

Of course, they can and perhaps they had done just that, long ago.
Even if they probably didn't manage that, the Chinese had proven they had strong and seaworty boats...and that was more than 500 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1421_hypothesis
http://www.hnn.us/articles/1308.html

[gonzo]

Blondie circumnavigated in a Folkboat with a junk rig.

[SeaSpark]

Blondie crossed the Atlantic several times with his Jester so did other people after him. A replica is still doing it. Jester never did a circumnavigation.

If anyone needs prove of the circumnavigateability of the junk rig this would be a good example. Not many sensible people would question it anyway.

(edit: link to Jester http://www.jesterinfo.org)

[marshmat]

Henry Pigott circled the world in Glory II, a 19.5 ft junk-rigged Colvic Watson motorsailer. Yes, 19.5 feet. Solo.

[sharpii2]

I think a modified Chinese junk might be the ticket. Everthing about it would stay Chinese except the Western keel and attatched rudder.

The huge Chinese lifting, ballanced rudder, which is also called apon to provide all the leeward resistence, seems to be a Junk's biggest weakness. I have read numerous accounts of them failing. And if it failed off a lee shore, that could really ruin your day. It is all held together with a rudder shaft which is supposed to be light enough to be lifted, since it sticks down way past the bottom of the boat, making it the big weak link in the system.

The nice thing about my proposal is that everything that is not Chinese will be hidden under the waterline.

As for the chinese lug itself, it is probably a much better technology than anyone in the West ever came up with. Particularily when it comes to the quallity of matteriels needed to make it work.

Thats my $0.02.

Bob

[messabout]

Welly;
Thanks for the most imformative exposition on the Chinese boat, sails, and philosophical concept. The mindset of the chinese person is well worth some effort for understanding by the westerner. The Chinese will succede in overwhelming us within the next 50 years, probably less. All one has to do is shop at Wal-Mart to get the general idea. We'd better be paying attention to the way the Chinese think. There is a huge amount of sub standard merchandise, bearing the China label, in the U.S. Our experience with shabby Chinese bread toasters, pocket knives, and cheap watches can lead us to believe that those people are not capable of excellence. That is a grave mistake. Pardon the political commentary please. This forum is about boats.

Welly, your extensive piece was very well done and I appreciate the effort.

[Vega]

That’s what the Portuguese have done (some centuries ago) in Macau.
The boat that has resulted from that cross was called a "Lorcha".

A European hull with an oriental rudder and rig.

Believe it or not, in the XVIII and XIX centuries, the navy had several, heavily armed (in Macau) and used them successfully against the pirates .

In the XIX century more than 60 of these boats were based in the Macau port and the boat had started to be built also in Bangkok, Ningpo and Singapura.

The last survivor of its kind is in Portugal. It was an old Navy boat. Its name is Macau.

http://www.ancruzeiros.pt/ancv-macau.html

[Wellydeckhand]

Originally Posted by messabout

Welly;
Thanks for the most imformative exposition on the Chinese boat, sails, and philosophical concept. The mindset of the chinese person is well worth some effort for understanding by the westerner. The Chinese will succede in overwhelming us within the next 50 years, probably less.

Welly, your extensive piece was very well done and I appreciate the effort.

Heh, Trust me I am scared too. I was born in Indonesia and chinese, doesnt mean we need to buy chinese bad quality, just appriciate the good one will do. I myself will discard bad export just like you.........

wellydeckhand

[Wellydeckhand]

It seem blackship got to the east faster than the british eh? But no comment from british on their modification on junk for HongKong?

I think, the chinese are trade man and most of the ship are fat and nice for cargo, Zheng He is a great man for his work in ASIA but not known for his speed though, because he carried too much gift.......... the first true mass discount of export?

WDH

[Ari]

Originally Posted by Wellydeckhand

It seem blackship got to the east faster than the british eh? But no comment from british on their modification on junk for HongKong?

I think, the chinese are trade man and most of the ship are fat and nice for cargo, Zheng He is a great man for his work in ASIA but not known for his speed though, because he carried too much gift.......... the first true mass discount of export?

WDH

One of the gift is the king princess, send over to Malacca/ Melaka..that started the baba and nyonya clan in Malaysia..flourished until today..

[Wellydeckhand]

Alot of Chinese offspring within Asian Kingship blood line........... It is just not the thread to start on one............ it is quite complex........... but we can try the junk ship........... Ari have anybody in Malaysia modify and made a better chinese junk by any chance.

wellydeckhand

P.S. This would be a nice thing with your dream of circumnavigate also