Can Chinese Junk actually circumnavigate?

Hello Guillermo,

Perhaps this Lister below, who shares my birthday. He is the "last human"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Lister

Good to have you in this thread.

Best wishes,

Perry

 

Kanfish,

Here is an article that has not been mutilated to remove references to Maori eating Maori.

http://www.zealand.org.nz/whakapapa2.htm

"Taoho, one of the Ngati Whatua chiefs, had drawn a line on the beach beyond which the fleeing Ngapuhi were not to be followed. Two of Hongi Hika's brothers were slain in the battle, but Hongi Hika had survived by hiding till nightfall in a swamp.

In 1824 he exacted his revenge. Thanks to the muskets he now owned he overwhelmed the Ngati Whatua in a battle by the Kaiwaka River, which has it's name from kai and waka ( food and canoe ) because the slaughtered Ngati Whatua were piled into canoes, roasted and eaten.

The Ngati Whatua survivors fled to Waitakere, and then on to the Waikato, and to Whangarei. The Auckland isthmus was abandoned."


The Iwi (tribe) NOT to belong to is Kai Iwi.

Regards,

Perry

 

Pericles, I owe you an apology
Lister

 

The picture of the aged Lister (Lister as Lister's father) surprisingly looks like .... you! Maybe this whole thing is self promotion!

Actually, the only Dave Lister I know is a very fast Moth sailor in Sydney. Famed for his iconoclastic homebuilt Moth design which rivals the best production boats on the water.

--
CutOnce

 

Chinese junks and pre Maori history in New Zealand

Hello Perry,
many thanks for this site. This is the type of story that Maori would like us to believe of course.
I like the 1421 book version much better with the much stronger and greater ' Ring of Truth ' to it than this, as recently quoted in Parliament last week here, the Alice in Wonderland ' Maori ' version of their history in NZ.
That in fact the Chinese bought the menfolk as slaves to work their Junk ship from Melinesia in this period who in turn, once ashore here, killed their ' Masters ' and over time bred up from the Chinese Concubine women that where also on board the big Junk ships to become what they are today now.
Apparently all Maori woman have an Asian gene that the men do not still to this day which tells this story irifrutably as I understand it.

The 1421 book is a great read and there is no doubt that these vessels did and have sailed where ever they wanted over the Worlds Oceans.

 

Don't forget all the Chinese motifs and jade parallels in the art of the societies of western central America.

 

.... and beyond.
When the Apollo 11 astronauts landed on the Moon,
they were astonished to find Chinese artifacts from
a previous expedition by Zhe Heng's great fleet circa
the 1420s.
NASA has managed to keep this fact a secret for decades,
but Menzies has compelling evidence that that Chinese had an
advanced space program in the 15th century.

 

Chinese Junks and pre ' Maori history in New Zealand

Indeed!
I think the Gavin Menzies research group working with individual information coming in constantly from all over the world has it pretty much right and in print in 1421 and 1434.
That World History as we have been taught is not as it once was now. That down here in NZ that Captain Cook and all other early visitors used Chinese charts to find their way here I think is a real Hoot.

Kanfish

 

The Chinese lug space sail and lacquered vacuum armor were two of the great discoveries of early Chinese space research.

 

Kanfish,

Sailing charts were once considered as state secrets, owing to their strategic and commercial value. Cook may have had access to Abel Tasman's charts because Britain had a Dutch king in 1688 AD. William of Orange was married to Mary, the Protestant daughter of Catholic convert James II who ruled only for 4 years. William and Mary heralded the

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution

On such small points do fortunes change. NZ became a British colony rather than Dutch.

"The Decline of the Dutch Republic

Having England as an ally meant that the military situation of the Republic was strongly improved, but this very fact induced William to be uncompromising in his position towards France. This policy led to a large number of very expensive campaigns which were largely paid for with Dutch funds. In 1712 the Republic was financially exhausted; it withdrew from international politics and was forced to let its fleet deteriorate, making England the dominant maritime power of the world. The Dutch economy, already burdened by the high national debt and concomitant high taxation, suffered from the other European states' protectionist policies, which its weakened fleet was no longer able to resist. To make matters worse, the main Dutch trading and banking houses moved much of their activity from Amsterdam to London after 1688. Between 1688 and 1720, world trade dominance shifted from the Republic to England."

A recent example of strategic charts were those allegedly used by Soviet subs to navigate undetected, the underwater peaks of the Arctic Ocean.

 

Fortunes certainly changed for the Dutch turning on the seemingly small point of tulip bulbs of all things!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

 

H,

Indeedy! The CO2 is a pollutant mania is the latest that springs to mind.

"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."

I guess you will know Tim Flannery crashed and burned on Melbourne radio, at the hands of an erstwhile Dutchman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bolt

A partial transcript of my interview today with Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery:

Bolt: How much will it cost to cut our emissions by the Government’s target of 5 per cent by 2020 and how much will world temperatures fall by as a consequence?

Flannery: Sure. We do have economists on the commission who will be giving a very in depth look at that this evening and I don’t want to pre-empt their assessment of the various cost options, but in terms of how much it will cut temperatures that really very much depends upon how Australia’s position is seen overseas …

Bolt: No, no, we’ll get onto that, Tim. I’m not going to dodge that. The argument is indeed that we have to set a lead and the world has to follow and on our own we can’t do blah blah, but just looking at the basic facts so people can figure it out for themselves (that) the world needs to come on board. On our own, cutting our emissions by 5 per cent by 2020, what will that lower the world’s temperatures by?

Flannery: See, that’s a bogus question because nothing is in isolation…

Bolt: Everyone understands that that is the argument But we’re just trying to get basic facts, without worrying about the consequences - about what those facts may lead people to think. On our own, by cutting our emissions, because it’s a heavy price to pay, by 5 per cent by 2020, what will the world’s temperatures fall by as a consequence?

Flannery: Look, it will be a very, very small increment.

Bolt: Have you got a number? I mean, there must be some numbers.

Flannery: I just need to clarfy in terms of the climate context for you. If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop for about a thousand years.

Bolt: Right, but I just want to get to this very basic fact, because I’m finding it really curious that no one has got (this) fact. If I buy a car … I want to know how much it costs and whether it is going to do the job.

Flannery: Sure.

Bolt: In this case I want to know the cost of cutting our emissions by 5 per cent by 2020 and will it do the job: how much will the world’s temperatures fall by if Australia cuts its emissions by this much.

Flannery: Look, as I said it will be a very, very small increment.

Bolt: Can you give us a rough figure? A rough figure.

Flannery: Sorry, I can’t because it’s a very complex system and we’re dealing with probabilities here.

Bolt: …I’m just trying to get the facts in front of the public so we know what we’re doing. Just unbiased. Is it about, I don’t know, are you talking about a thousandth of a degree? A hundredth of a degree? What sort of rough figure?

Flannery: Just let me finish and say this. If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow the average temperature of the planet is not going to drop in several hundred years, perhaps as much as a thousand years because the system is overburdened with CO2 that has to be absorbed and that only happens slowly.

Bolt: That doesn’t seem a good deal… Someone surely must have done the sums that for all these billions of dollars we’re spending in programs that it’s got to have a consequence in terms of cutting the world’s temperature. So you don’t know about Australia, you wouldn’t dispute that it’s within about a thousandth of a degree, around that magnitude, right?

Flannery: It’s going to be slight.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/mtr_today_march_25/

http://www.mtr1377.com.au/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8274

 

Wow, indeedy!

 

Back on Chinese junks.... Here's a pic I found of BERTIE sailing near Port Townsend a couple of years ago. On the left side of picture the schooner GRAIL is passing us with her blue racing fisherman's topsail set.

 

An interresting model, said to be the largest ship built at the time.
Lister