Can Chinese Junk actually circumnavigate?

[Wellydeckhand]

Ok VEGA...... so I was late to know these stuff....... was busy in the forest workin for a livin you know.....

WDH

[Wellydeckhand]

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=potter0008

This article discribe the Junk Sail Rig and easy use....... Test of Time design

WDH

Why did we decide to build a junk-rigged vessel? Aside from the simplicity of sailing, we built this particular boat because we fell in love with her lines. We decided that if we were going to take a few years off to build a boat, it had to be something unique and beautiful. Although we had seen pictures of the Chinese junk-rigs that have sailed around Hong Kong's harbor and many other places in the Orient for hundreds of years, it never occurred to us that we would build a similar boat.

So, how does our boat sail? We absolutely love the way Moondancer sails on a beam reach or deeper. When the wind comes over the stern and we let the sails out on either side, people onshore smile, wave, and take pictures. At times like that, I swell with pride. Surely there is nothing more beautiful than a junk running wing-and-wing.

However, with the good comes the bad. Junk-rigs, as a rule, can't point as high as Bermuda-rigged sloops. Moondancer is no exception. She really doesn't like to sail upwind. As sailors, we discovered a long time ago that we don't like to beat too hard upwind either. Thus, we share a kinship with our boat. Twenty knots of wind at our back is the ideal condition for all of us.

Standing the Test of Time

One of the strongest and most vocal proponents of the junk rig is Robin Blain, the current Secretary of the Junk Rig Association based in the UK. Blain says that this rig configuration was developed 2,000 years ago by Chinese mariners and has only gotten better with time. He refutes the criticism that a junk rig can't sail to windward. The junk's only limitation on windward ability, says Blain, is imposed by the boat's hull shape. He says that junk-rigged racing boats have been proven to sail within 35 degrees of the wind. Another beauty of the junk rig, claims Blain, is that unlike Bermudian rigs, these sails are so efficient that they don't have to be tended as closely.

Blain claims that the efficiency of the junk rig also has other advantages: The sails needn't be made of high-tech materials, and compared to Bermuda rigs, these are the most quiet sails available because they don't slat and snap against the rigging; there isn't any rigging. For additional information on the Junk Rig Association, contact Blain at:

Junk Rig And Advanced Cruising Rig Association
373 Hunts Pond Road
Fareham
Hants PO14 4PB
phone 44 01329 842613.

[Wellydeckhand]

http://winterthun.net/victor/conversion.php

[Ari]

Beautiful rig..so easy to make..so cheap to maintain..I love it too.

[bartbunbury]

I cannot understand why you guys want to stick a junk rig on a modern hull??why dont you stick to a chinese junk as a whole ??, it is a great consept and I believe it will only work if you keep the two together
I am building a 2.5 mtr model at the moment and if it all works out I will build a full size one, which will be 17 mtr in length. if any one is interested in the plans , let me know.

Bartbunbury

[westlawn5554X]

I also got interest in junk builting notion. I am almost finish my hybride version but the junk can be view at my gallery:

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...y.php?cat=3116

LOA 22m Junk but my next junk rendering have not been complete.

The thing with junk is that marine advancement for old China had somewhat disturbed by the Emperor decision not to communicate further out after ChengHo. So boat and Ship are built for for trade and short passage hence the bulky hull.

Even the durable junk rig sail was never improved by the Chinese... Dont know why. Maybe they 're too concerntrated in fuedal war among themselve. China is call mainland and they see the Silk Road as the only vital Trade Route to the West.

I know thos sound crazy but I have a few new junk rig design I have been keeping to myself. Dont know where to patent it yet.

Student (very ameture)

[gggGuest]

Originally Posted by Wellydeckhand

[url]One of the strongest and most vocal proponents of the junk rig is Robin Blain, the current Secretary of the Junk Rig [follows two paras of desperately overegged spin]

Its funny isn't it, how people can takea perfectly reasonable concept, for which there is a definite place, and then hype it beyond belief so that the disinterested bystander just ignores the concept. Kind of a DL moment:-)

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by bartbunbury

I cannot understand why you guys want to stick a junk rig on a modern hull??why dont you stick to a chinese junk as a whole ??, it is a great consept and I believe it will only work if you keep the two together
I am building a 2.5 mtr model at the moment and if it all works out I will build a full size one, which will be 17 mtr in length. if any one is interested in the plans , let me know.

Bartbunbury

Probably because more modern hulls have greater capability. The big weaknes of a junk is its huge ballanced rudder. It is not only needed to steer the vessel but to provide latteral ressistence as well. It projects well below the vessel's bottom and only retracts virtically. If it should strike ground, the vessel could lose not only its steering, but its latteral resistance as well.

A big part of traditional Western keel design has been sturdiness and rudder protection. Maybe that comes from Greek galleys that had to be beached every night and Viking ships that also served as landing craft. Even modern high performance sailboats usually have the keel considerably deeper than the rudder.

I believe it was the Portuguese who first started putting junk rigs on Western hulls. Apparently, that was a big improvement on 16th and 17th century ship design. The hybrid vessel was faster than the Chinese boat and much more weatherly than than European boat.

But. As I have said before, I see no reason not to put a full keel on a junk, especially one that's expected to do blue water work and sail in poorly charted areas, and take advantage of the West's greatest contribution to sailing vessel design. And yet have a boat that looks like a junk.

Bob

[Ari]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

I believe it was the Portuguese who first started putting junk rigs on Western hulls. Apparently, that was a big improvement on 16th and 17th century ship design. The hybrid vessel was faster than the Chinese boat and much more weatherly than than European boat.

Bob

This type of boat is still being built in Malaysia they are called Pinis in Malaysia or Phinisi in Indonesia. The Phinisi utilised seven sail like a schooner or Ketch.Pinis normally utilised Junk sail and Jib.
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...0/ppuser/12573

[bartbunbury]

Sharpii2

You are spot on, the only alterations that I have made so far are the rudder and the keel , I might make some more as a go along. I have included some drawings and some photo's of the model that I am building.

Cheers , Bart

[coops.gb]

Hi everyone,
Great model Bart any updates??

I am glad to find this post I am also wanting to build a junk design motorsailer.
Searching for just the right plans has left me reaching for my pencil.

I am half way through my concept sketches and will put them up in the short future for comment.

Anyone think the san francisco pelican has potential to blow out to 40 ft??
With a few slight line changes of course.

There is a 24 ft stretched dowser Pelican that would be awsome enlarged.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Pelican...ICANSAILBOATS/

So a 40 ft, stitch and glue, ply, v hull with a full keel and a sampan bow
and a junk rig. This is what Im starting with....oh and a pilot house on the aft 3rd.

Anyhow Im excited about it and will try to get some drawings up soonest.
I would love some group comment
Cheers everyone Glenn

[coops.gb]

Is this thread still active for anyone?

[TerryKing]

Those of us who don't know much but are interested are still subscribed...

[DanishBagger]

Yup - same as Terry :-)

[yipster]

after some reading i found the perforated or open rudders interesting
often in a bun that in a following sea fills and compensates pitching
was thinking tho the junk sail behaves as latin sail touching the mast
also the hull planking going the other way up is different
interesting boats and the first with watertight compartments
but more southerly cats were stealing the show in those days