Bow shape and keel arrangement

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Lee01, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. Lee01
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Italy

    Lee01 Junior Member

    Tasl I believe that you cover every aspect of the design process after all this studies that you claim, but words like SAR is only a slang T, Cb, wl, are words that has a translation, thank you Gonzo for explaining :)
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    SOR isn't slang and if you had a formal education about the design process, you'd understand. Without the formal education, you still can find the term SOR, with a search on this site, as well as other "design spiral" definitions. The "words" you are referring to are acronyms (acronimo), not words. The same is true of acronym SOR, which you now know the meaning for. You're not ready to design anything yet, but your modeling skills are ahead of the curve. You will have to find a way to get through books such as "Principles of Yacht Design" or similar. This is the only way, other then an apprenticeship, that you'll get the knowledge you need, to insure this yacht will float with it's decks facing up, come launch day.
     
  3. Lee01
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Italy

    Lee01 Junior Member

    Why do you assume the design spiral is unknown in this part of the world?
    can you imagine that someone is using it traslated in italian? or maybe it was invented in japanese, or in italian, there are even newer methods than design spiral, ie based on experiment and simulation like Design of Experiment multiple criteria MCDM ;)
    as you can see from this diagram years before the internet someone used already the design spiral at the time, I suppose if a tuskish say "gereksinimleri", (google translation for requirements) you immediatly understand he's speaking of SOR, AKA 要件 in japanese, I'll refer to them as RDB (requisiti di base)
     

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  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm not sure why you think folks are personally attacking you, they aren't and in fact have shown a great deal of patience with you, in regard to your translation issues, syntax understanding, as well as the lack of hydrodynamic knowledge.

    Yes, the classic design spiral has been around a long time and so have other approaches, which isn't new information to anyone with engineering and/or design experience. As to the question of the online availability of the acronym SOR, a simple search on this site with the term "SOR" produced hundreds of hits, so not much of an excuse to not comprehend the meaning. Again, had you some formal training, this wouldn't be a concern, but since you've been unable to get through the technicalities, in the most common texts on the subject, I'd have to say you are the one at the disadvantage, particularly in light of the fact we (most of those that have posted on this thread) already know what a SOR is, not to mention the engineering and hydro ends of the equation.

    Simply, you know what you need to do, if you expect some level of success with a yacht of that size and general configuration. If unwilling to learn the prerequisite material, through the usual avenues of pursuit, well good luck with that.
     
  5. Emerson White
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Nordland, WA, USA

    Emerson White Junior Member

    Don't forget that it's a recreational boat. It's okay if aesthetics win over function, so long as they aren't too put out by the fractional reduction in performance.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    If you have ever docked a cabin cruiser on a crosswind, you have seen that the performance was reduced by a very large percentage. They have the windage of a sailboat with the main up, but no keel. The only way to maneuver is to come in at speed and then slam them in reverse. However, aesthetics sell more boats than performance does.
     

  7. Lee01
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Italy

    Lee01 Junior Member

    in some case less practical aspects like aesthetic, wich means to please all your 5 senses or some other needs can sacrifice the performance, and crusing is about aesthetic, I should follow the design spiral the next time, about SOR what rule would these mega yacht race? I know only there are J class, @ gonzo it would be difficult also dock a boat with 6m draft, on this number of Proboat there is an article about a nice 31 ft boat, and the designer say at page 18 that it has a hollow bow "the bow shape is fine and slightly hollow at the waterline. It flares out in the topsides for reserve buoyancy, creating a shape that cuts through the waves easily but has enough lift to be driven hard downwind". About double rudders area compared to single one I couldn't find any indication
     
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