beauties

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by WindRaf, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    I put it on purpose, it's an Adriatic trabaccolo, she existed before the first English lugger. And lugger is lugger, no a schooner.
    other question:
    Soling without a jib, is a cat boat?
     
  2. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    Now, now lads, come on.......
     
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  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You know, it would be nice if you actually could defend your assertions Windraf, with a reasonable debate, but thus far you've simply made assertions, most unsubstantiated or generally accepted as incorrect by the industry.

    You're again incorrect, that's a lug rigged schooner. Simply, just because it's got lug sails, doesn't mean it isn't a schooner rig. The local slang for her may very well be a "lugger", but it's still a lug rigged schooner.

    Again, you're incorrect a Soling without her jib, is still a Soling and still a sloop, just with her jib doused.

    [​IMG]

    A rig type is defined by what shes drawn to be, not what she has hoisted. If we where to use your definitions in this regard, then a boat with all sails doused would be a powerboat, which if underway would technically be correct, but this doesn't change her rig type, just her manner of propulsion and navigation rules she must comply to.

    You still haven't explained why a schooner can be a schooner without using her rig in the definition.

    I'll ask again, without using the rig, what makes any particular boat quality or feature a schooner?
     
  4. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    ''I'll ask again, without using the rig, what makes any particular boat quality or feature a schooner?''




    is just what you can not understand, PAR.
    You classify the boats only fording the sails.
    But so you ranks only sails,
    Not the boat as a whole.
    To give you an example: when a poor immigrant arrives in your country and do not know the language, he uses the verbs endlessly, always.
    The same that you doing looking at the boats.
    A lugger is a lugger for the whole of its historical concept, and if the sailing rig is a bit changed continues to be a lugger with the sailing rig modified: in fact exist luggers even with one sail.
    Equal to the brigantine from which Sciarrelli was inspired to design his boat.
    Your problem is that maybe you're an expert in fiberglass and glues, but your nautical culture is still primitive.
     
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  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  6. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Schooner came before lugger. Therefore all luggers are schooners but not all schooners are luggers.
     
  7. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    The term brigantine does in fact predate the term schooner, but that makes it no less a ship falling under the schooner definition based on the number of masts.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Brigantine


    "noun, Nautical

    1.
    a two-masted sailing vessel, square-rigged on the foremast and having a fore-and-aft mainsail with square upper sails.

    2.
    hermaphrodite brig.



    Origin

    Medieval Latin

    Old Italian

    Middle French

    1515-1525"
     
  8. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    It is not worth arguing over any longer.
     
  9. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    Yes, not worth the trouble, continue to copy the definitions of weapons sailing, not boats.


    if the client has asked ... Sciarelli 'I want a new boat inspired by the schooner'.... Sciarelli, one of the greatest designers in the world, would have drawn a boat completely different than the one we are saying here.


    i to be, you to be, he to be...
     
  10. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    lugger (lŭg′ər)
    n.
    A small boat used for fishing, sailing, or coasting and having two or three masts, each with a lugsail, and two or three jibs set on the bowsprit.
    (from english wikipedia)


    ohhh.. lugger can have two or three mastes, and two or three jibs....


    i to be, you to be, he to be...
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    I am content with that.
     
  12. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    when another client, asked to Sciarrelli, a cat boat designe, Sciarrelli drew a cat boat

    this


    [​IMG]
     
  13. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    when another client, asked to Sciarrelli, a schooner designe, Sciarrelli drew a schooner

    this

    [​IMG]
     
  14. dinoa
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    dinoa Senior Member

    All beauties.
     

  15. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    Sciarrelli, Sagittario...O.S.T.A.R '72



    [​IMG]
     
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