Bayliner Buccaneer 295.. Oh and hello!

[jboswell]

I am new here, been lurking for all of 2 hours or so, so go a little easy on me.

I really only have 1 basic question, contained in what is going to amount to a paragraph of explanation leading up to it.

I bought the aforementioned sailboat around 4 months ago, very solid, mostly good condition except for a decent amount of water in the balsa and a lot of termites in the wood of the boat. It wasn't a very large concern of mine at the time because I got it rather cheap and I was already intending on ripping it all the way down to the hull anyway. So, it took about 3 months of weekends to get everything torn out, and mostly sanded down.

Everything is now ripped out, and I am starting the internal redesign, basically laying it out in rough sketches, bearing in mind the many issues I will need to worry about in the final redesign (weight, layout, accessibility, disaster recovery, etc, etc etc...) My problem right now is that I have no hard measurements, I am trying to lay this out on a computer so I can mess with the design and move things around rather than re-sketch everything.

I don't know how to go about getting these measurements, short of measuring with a tape and just recording 100's of measures, what can I do?

The hull itself, the engine, the mast rigging and sails are in fair to good condition.

Also I intend on taking this thing far beyond my local stomping ground, eventually just sailing till I can sail no more.

Any input would be appreciated! Thanks!

Joe

[souljour2000]

Welcome to the forum!...Interesting idea JB...Could be a great project...as to your basic question.... in all honesty ...seriously...there might be other concerns which may be of significantly more importance to your project than how well you can simply cad design interior concepts more easily... I can't help you there..I sketch everything on microsoft paint and in my mind's eye mostly.
However...There's a few things I might be of some help with though. First of all, can you post some pics of what you have done as far as the demo side of things...maybe a before and after pic or two if you have some... Ques.- Have you removed the deck also? Is the whole hull balsa core? If so is there water damage....rot there too in addition to the termites? Termites and balsa core are honestly two words that you really dont like to hear in the same sentence in the boating world....but things may not be so bad... It all depends..maybe you already know that they wont be a problem...I can't answer your original question but I can offer that right now you have a boat you have gotten cheaply and have ripped down to a hull...but one would be doing you a disservice if I responded without asking about the integrity of the hull you are now left with... I guess I am saying that if you are not a well-seasoned sailboat owner.... or even if you are....you might very much want to consider getting some expert opinions solely about what you have right now to make sure what you have already is good before proceeding into lesser design issues...I'm not an expert..but there are expert folks in here ...there may also be other perhaps less-qualified but valuable opinions that could potentially help you if your inexperienced and save you boo-koo bucks and time if you think you might honestly need that kind of help. Not saying you do...maybe you don't...If you don't then please do post some pics anyways...BTW...I'm doing a re-model of a early 80's Hunter 20 but not nearly such a major one as yourself... I've merely torn off the rear cabin bulkhead and stretched the cabin a foot aft and tossed out the pop-top roof and am adding a slightly higher and crowned hard coachroof instead and I am re-modeling the interior and the cockpit. Pretty major but poppycock compared to a 29.5 hull-up re-build...Anyways..sorry for the long post. Hope this helped a tad bit anyways and please post some pics for us to see...

[jboswell]

yeah, I am pulling up some specific images of the damage and putting some notes on them now.

[jboswell]

Here is a brief glimpse of the damage. I haven't taken any recent pics, I plan on doing that tomorrow while I am down there.

So far the hull seems like it is in really good shape, I am no fiberglass master, but I have worked with a decent amount of it over the years. The inside is completely stripped at the moment, these pics are over the months of teardown so the boat is in various states of disarray.

[jboswell]

Oh, and here is what I am removing, I basically just cut the skin of the fiberglass on the inside and rip everything out. The intention is to either add more balsa and then resurface with fiberglass, or just add a much thicker layer of chopped glass since I am adding more insulation to the boat anyway.

[jboswell]

In my haste to post the pics I completely forgot your questions, my apologies.

I sketch everything on microsoft paint and in my mind's eye mostly.

Generally I follow the same principal, I like to sit on it for a while in my head, get a general idea of how I want it to go, where I want things and just build an ideal picture. From there I go into some rough pencil sketches and then back to the head, and back to paper again, but when I really start getting it down I want to get it down with actual measures. I will want a built-in toolbox with a decent set of tools onboard, hence I need it's measures, then I go on to bigger stuff, head, bed size and number, custom built freezer, fridge, and sink, etc. I could sketch all this out but it wouldn't be nearly as accurate inch for inch as I can get it in a CAD layout which would inevitably cause problems. CAD is just really the "measure twice" of "Measure twice and cut once."

Have you removed the deck also?

I have not, the deck is in good shape, I am leaving it mostly alone except for the balsa around and below the windows.

Is the whole hull balsa core?

No, and this is what made me just assume the termites and water damage weren't a big deal, water doesn't do much to fiberglass, especially painted fiberglass. So, while the deck is the fiberglass/balsa sandwich, everything from the gunwales down is solid fiberglass.

If so is there water damage....rot there too in addition to the termites?

Everything under the sun, rot, water damage, fungus, mold, it's a science lab. The termites, from what I can tell, died a while ago however, there is nothing that is still living on this boat, other than the mold, and now that it is exposed, it is also mostly dead.

I am already in the process of making new bulkheads as I had intended to replace them anyhow, just taking some 1" thick hardwood ply and coating it with epoxy resin and a couple sheets of glass. I did my initial bulkhead and it is a bit overkill I think so I will be paring it down to just sealing the new bulkheads in epoxy resin. The stuff is amazing to work with, so much easier than regular poly resin.

J

[souljour2000]

Okay..I deleted my first post which is why one should not say or write anything/operate heavy machinery,etc.. pretty much until one has fully woken up...obviously I missed the big part of what you said concerning the actual hull being solid...all I can say now really is that is great news...and that solid hull should be pretty darn thick so once again..great news...get to work me boy...

[marshmat]

I'm just on my way out to a boat show now and will check back on this thread later.

For now, I'll suggest this:

Cardboard and tape.

No, seriously. For figuring out if a layout is going to work, one of the easiest and most effective things you can do is to mock it up using scrap cardboard, wrapping paper tubes, that sort of thing. Try something, then if it isn't quite right, rip the tape off and rearrange it until you like it. On the last solar car I worked on, we mocked up the whole cockpit this way on a workbench while figuring out how to fit the driver and controls in there. You have it even better- you have the actual hull to work with.

As to the structural issues- well, that's a big story and one that you'd better be prepared for when it comes time to start putting things back together.

[El Sea]

In the ship yards while working on subs, we referenced the centerline of the ship (above centerline, below centerline), the structural frames, port & starboard. Now remember these were subs, being over fourth feet in diameter.

Then we allowed for "paint to match, beat to fit and cope suit"

[souljour2000]

Here's an interesting link to the history of this boat hull design. Apparently this was a very successful hull design overall or it might not have had so many re-incarnations.. For one, the Pearson Triton is fairly highly regarded and came from this hull apparently...


http://www.phrfne.org/html/boats/chase29.htm

[jboswell]

Well I did a bunch of measuring today, I will see how it goes when I drop this stuff into AutoCAD. I am rather new with modeling to begin with, but I did IT work for a lot of shops that do 3D/2D design so I played around with a few different apps over the years so I am rather familiar at least in getting around. Modeling though is a whole world in and of itself.

Yeah the Buccaneer model was sold around, that link goes into some nice detail, and makes me more concerned. If that model is being sold around it makes me wonder if I would be able to get it for free, probably not, but maybe cheap? I am not really sure, it would be awesome though. Not really sure who/what I would talk to, I suppose just making a call to Bayliner maybe? I really doubt I could smooth talk someone over there into digging around looking for plans for a 30 year old boat though.

"paint to match, beat to fit and cope suit"

That one is a different service and probably quite a bit before my time, maybe anyway. Though I think I get the gist.

[Perm Stress]

originally posted by jboswell:

"Any input would be appreciated! Thanks!

Joe"


1. Hire a Naval Architect. Follow his advice and drawings carefully.

or

2. Get original structural plans, including laminate schedules, and follow them.

or

3. It will be a wild experiment in guesswork, and your life could be at stake when testing results.


Best regards

[jboswell]

1. Hire a Naval Architect. Follow his advice and drawings carefully.

I would imagine this is so far out of my price range it would be equivalent to me putting a man on the moon. Possibly building plans and hiring one to tell me what is good and what I need to change maybe though might work.

2. Get original structural plans, including laminate schedules, and follow them.

I just bought a couple books on fiberglass repair, from the looks of it they go into significant detail on the subject.

3. It will be a wild experiment in guesswork, and your life could be at stake when testing results.

Somewhat dramatic but I get the idea. If it were just me on the boat I wouldn't honestly mind too much.

[jboswell]

Here is the current state of the interior.

The small holes in the floor have water in them hence the pic of them, they are on the floor in a lot of corners, I plan to drill some exploratory holes and see how bad it really is. Thinking it won't be too bad, but you never know I guess.

The side pic is just a closeup of what was happening under/around the balsa, you can see some interesting colors in there, that side hasn't been sanded down yet. Once everything is sanded I will be taking some acetone to the walls to clean them and kill any mold or anything else still sitting in the fiberglass.

[souljour2000]

Facts of the matter seem to be that you have a strong hull with good thickness even in the places where the $7.50/hr Johnny paychecks were a bit thin with the layers or chopper gun....That kind of a hull can potentially take you a long way ...the superstructure is obviously going to be a hell of a lot of work and your going to spend alot of cash over the 2-3 years I'd guess you'd need to bring her around...but what is the condition of the keel Joe? Is there going to be alot of work needing done there? Hopefully not...Those keels from that era were pretty sturdy compared to many of todays' offshore raceboats....