America's Cup declining?

[bhnautika]

Sharpii2 I have some questions about your points on AC


“How many of these Carbon fiber egg shells will still be sailing ten years from now?”
Why should we care?

“I also don't see much boating product spin off comming off these high lead coffin ships.”
Why? The trickle down effect has never been the reason for race boats.

“The America's Cup Race has a lot more competition for attention these days”
Let’s face it gets more attention now than 30 years ago.

“Make the crews really national (and the boat building and design if possible). “
Wouldn’t this give some countries a big advantage over others (back to the future)

“Change the rule to make the boats more relevent to the general sailing community”
Which part? The dinghy,skiff,multihulls,etc

“Making them race in anthing from a slight breeze to a full gale would probably help”
Is that ocean racing?

“Also, putting an absolute limit on draft, sail area, and ballast to displacement ratio could help too”
Like a box rule?

“Allowing really huge boats under these conditions, by making the sail area and draft limits high, to raise the drama quotient.”
Why is raising the danger to crew necessary to the spectacle?

“Allow only one boat per syndicate. (get it right the first time boys.)”
Would they just spend more money on tank testing? It could also favour some teams with more access to that type information and knowledge form past races over a new players.

“Having the actual races in a neutral venue which would be decided by lottery with each competitor being able to cast in its favorite choice”
We have that now with the Olympics! Do you think that works well for the athletes?

[safewalrus]

Of course you could always make 'em do it where they originally did it- once round the Isle of Wight on a set day, conditions not withstanding! You leave THEN, you go round (whichever way suits) First one over the line wins! Sailing times can be the handicap, smaller boats go earlier sort of stuff! Works for the 'round the Island race' once a year! (scares the pants of the professional ferrymen as they approach certain points -that bloody big gaggle off Ryde pier! with a schedule to keep to! SH ee ee t!) But the camera people could enjoy a few weeks filming the preparation and it wouldn't cause too much congestion! And as the 'Host Nation' probably will never be able to afford the ballyhoo of a boat again, there's no nasty problems on race day (and as I don't drive for any of the ferry companies anymore no 'bloody yotty' is going to get delibratly rammed! moi?! as if?)

[gggGuest]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

Of course you could always make 'em do it where they originally did it- once round the Isle of Wight on a set day, conditions not withstanding!

And if there had been any kind of handicap America (a boat built specifically for winning money by gambling) would have lost by a mile.

But yes, instead of these carbon fibre eggshells lets go back to nice safe traditional boats like Defender in 1895, which literally destroyed itself with electrolytic corrosion, or Reliance in 1903, which was so unseaworthy that the rules were changed to prevent racing in a strong breeze, or, or , or...

[safewalrus]

Or better still as I've said before give it to the formula 1 car racers and let seafarers get on with being just that!

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by bhnautika

Sharpii2 I have some questions about your points on AC


“How many of these Carbon fiber egg shells will still be sailing ten years from now?”
Why should we care?

“I also don't see much boating product spin off comming off these high lead coffin ships.”
Why? The trickle down effect has never been the reason for race boats.

“The America's Cup Race has a lot more competition for attention these days”
Let’s face it gets more attention now than 30 years ago.

“Make the crews really national (and the boat building and design if possible). “
Wouldn’t this give some countries a big advantage over others (back to the future)

“Change the rule to make the boats more relevent to the general sailing community”
Which part? The dinghy,skiff,multihulls,etc

“Making them race in anthing from a slight breeze to a full gale would probably help”
Is that ocean racing?

“Also, putting an absolute limit on draft, sail area, and ballast to displacement ratio could help too”
Like a box rule?

“Allowing really huge boats under these conditions, by making the sail area and draft limits high, to raise the drama quotient.”
Why is raising the danger to crew necessary to the spectacle?

“Allow only one boat per syndicate. (get it right the first time boys.)”
Would they just spend more money on tank testing? It could also favour some teams with more access to that type information and knowledge form past races over a new players.

“Having the actual races in a neutral venue which would be decided by lottery with each competitor being able to cast in its favorite choice”
We have that now with the Olympics! Do you think that works well for the athletes?

Allowing huge boats does not increase danger to the crew. Or safety either, for that matter. That all depends on design. And good and bad design elements are encouraged by any rule. A good rule encourages more good design elements than bad.

Why not a box rule? It may produce better boats. It would have to be tried, though. A mini can sail in seas that would sink most IACC boats.

The AC should be a premium event, not a pond race. Yes it should be an off shore race. Like it originally was.

Keel boats, of course. The multis have their 'Little America's Cup' which, as far as I can tell, has produed its own fleet of flimsy pond racers. And dinghys have their own ferocious competions.

One way or the other, you are giving one country an advantage over another.
My hope is to make this more a matter of national pride. And less a matter of who can throw the most gold coins around.

Yes. There should be some 'trickle down'. Those boats are built for people and corporations that often have the right to legally rob us. And 'trickle down' is almost always thier sole justification for that right.

Maybe the neutral venue is a bit harsh. But allowing the defender sole discretion on venue gives too much advantage to the home team. Maybe allowing the defender to present a choice of, say, three posible home waters for the race and allowing the challengers to pick one would be a better idea.
This would happen AFTER the boats were built, of course.

Bob

[bhnautika]

The question was America’s cup declining? So
The amount of money being spent
The amount of technology
Media coverage
Public recognition
General controversy
The America’s cup is what it is. A two-boat race, by two yacht clubs in a boat and place designated by the defender. We have other boat races for national pride, Olympics and Admirals cup, it always had both private and corporate money driving it and they wouldn’t be there if they didn’t get something out of it. So too far offshore is not an option (out of sight, out of mind) I don’t think it has ever been a true Corinthian race.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Neverbehind

If a guy crews one america's cup for one team and then gets a load ofcash thrown at him to join another, thats selling out. ...., but if they're just going for money....

Get real...that is the normal standard in all international top sports, from soccer to F1. Of course they go for the money.
If it is a club's race, then the clubs would buy the best crews they can afford, never minding the nationality. The only way around it, would be to make it a Nation’s race, then you would have to be a national to represent your country.....but you want it to remain a club’s race, don’t you?

[usa2]

It's not supposed to be a nation's race, the only reason people view it that way is because they don't understand the story behind the title "America's Cup". Most people see it as "America's", as in something the country owns, or did, and not as "America's", as named after a yacht(working schooner).

[Vega]

Originally Posted by usa2

It's not supposed to be a nation's race, the only reason people view it that way is because they don't understand the story behind the title "America's Cup". .

Of course, it is supposed to be a club race, but when you think of Alinghi or Oracle you think of Corporations....So now is it a corporation's race? Anyway for racing a boat you need the kind of money only a big Corporation or a nation can provide...So I guess that the Club thing has already had its days.

Don't take me wrong, I love that race and I like the boats. The only thing I don´t like is that stupid rule that permits them not to race if there is too much wind. They should be capable of racing in almost any conditions, except a full storm.

[Neverbehind]

these boats are too weakly designed for offshore racing, remeber what happened to new zealand last cup?did they even finish a race?

[usa2]

Well, most clubs cannot afford to finance a challenge these days. So you get a few rich guys who are members of clubs, but technically are personally financing a challenge. Then they decide, why should i pay the whole price, why not get the company which i am the big bad boss of to sponsor the challenge? Larry Ellison is a perfect example of this. Even Sayonara, his ILC/IMS maxi, had ORACLE plastered on her mainsail and spinnakers.

[oldsailor7]

Francis Herreshoff, who took out the original patent for the Catamaran, designed and built many a monohull AC contender.
If he could see the AC cats of today he would mighty proud i'm sure.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by oldsailor7

Francis Herreshoff, who took out the original patent for the Catamaran, designed and built many a monohull AC contender.
If he could see the AC cats of today he would mighty proud i'm sure.

==============
Well said !! You can watch the AC World Series live tomorrow-link in the "Multihulls" forum(pinned tomorrow)

[eyschulman]

So would an American rather watch a football-baseball-soccer(here in Seattle 64,000 attendance)game or an exciting sailboat race? I can even get bored if Im not driveing.

[Dirteater]

sounds like we should make the America's Cup (Multi-hulls) it an Olympic sport as well