America's Cup

[Saf]

Big sponsors don't give a thing about race spirit marshmat!

That was history! Today is very diffirent!

[hiracer]

I think all rule-based racing eventually becomes class racing, in effect, if one leaves the rule in place long enough and the venue is the same. Science is objective; everybody will sooner or later figure out what works and what doesn't.

Race cars don't look or act like the family SUV. Why should sailboats be any different? Differentiation of use is inevitable.

The real underlying question, to my mind, is what kind of racing do you want? Then build your rule accordingly, keeping in mind that eventually it will look more like class racing than rule racing.

[Saf]

Do you think that if people set some rules for each class it would work?!

I think they have the racing rules just to make there lives easier so they don't have to do alot of work! Lazy people!

[Saf]

I think it's a game that people who set these rules are playing so you guys with the fastest boat can sit down and follow what the rules says!

Unfair isn't?!

[Guillermo]

"When the 12 boats competing for the America's Cup in Valencia, Spain, take to the water next year, the lineup will feature a first--a team representing China will participate, marking a new era in the race's 150-year history."

More at: http://www.forbes.com/sport/2006/09/...0929yacht.html

[Guillermo]

“We didn’t want a silver bullet to win the America’s Cup, we wanted racing that was close,” says Simmer who was among the committee who drafted the latest version of the rule. “The best thing for the Cup is if it goes to nine races in the final Match. We’d all age terribly (he jokes) but it would be good for the Cup! So hopefully there won’t be a silver bullet. Hopefully it will be the team that has developed all of their areas a little bit better and it adds up to a total package that’s better.”
(Grant Simmer, the Managing Director and Design Coordinator for Alinghi).
http://www.americascup.com/en/acmag/...dContent=13176

[Dan S]

I want to know why the Australians doesn’t have a team this go around.

[bullfrog]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I want to know why the Australians doesn’t have a team this go around.

The same reason they didn't last time.

A lack of money, and interest from the general population.

You can add the english, NYC, japan to the list as well.

[Stephen Ditmore]

To have a chance against the big two (BMW/Oracle & Alinghi) would take a big commitment. Looks like Emirates Team New Zealand might be competitive, and a few others look pretty serious. Is it worth all the effort just to show up and be eliminated? If I had big bucks and was interested in getting in the game, I'd seek out top people who are not in this round and use lasers to take the lines of the top boats when they're unveiled, and just calibrate computer programs.... just be a study group gathering data for next time 'round.

Are Doug Peterson and Dave Egan sitting this one out? Is Friendship Systems associated with the new German team (or another)? And then there's Van Oossanen. His own designs haven't done well (unless you count Australia II), but he's an interesting dude nonetheless.

I'm not inclined to think the America's Cup needs fixing. It is what it is, a keelboat match race. If you guys want to do something else, do it! Hire a big fancy trophy made and offer it to the winner of a race under whatever rules you want.... and offer to forever name the trophy after the first boat to win it!

[BOATMIK]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

“We didn’t want a silver bullet to win the America’s Cup, we wanted racing that was close,” says Simmer

Howdy Guillermo,

I haven't been back to post on this thread for some time - since being among the first to reply when it started. But I have been watching

I think Simmer's comment is effectively a damnation of the whole crazy process.

Their purpose and the purpose of the rule is to
1/ build the most expensive one designs in the world.

2/ Clamp down strong on any real speed producing features.

3/ Eliminate the possibility of a breakthrough boat.

How much faster will this year's crop of AC boats be than the last generation? Or the generation before that.

It is about as exciting as watching the screen while running 150 hull variations through a CFD program looking to make a 2kg drag difference.

Let's pop out for another coffee Fred.

They should scrap the current silly type forming rule with everyone forced to work one corner.

My rules would be something like.

1/ Boats to be 70 ft long
2/ No exotics in the hull
3/ Boats to be monohull
4/ Max concavity above the waterline to be 305mm measured girthwise
5/ Crew to stay within the confines of the deck when racing except temporarily
6/ Racing starts at 1pm (apologies to the 18s)

In other words a wide conceptual frame that puts REAL innovation at the forefront rather than who is doing the best job of the hull keel fillet.

Kill the "design by numbers" stone dead it would. Or rather it would put the numbers back where they belong - in the background supporting hunches and inspiration about gross improvements.

Even without the exotics the boats to this rule would whop the sorry ass-ets of the current ACC boats in the first generation.

And more countries could play - er or do I mean more corporations with international workforces placed on boats that are notionally registered within the country whose insignia is on the mainsail.

Or just maybe it might start to be possible for COUNTRIES to afford boats again.

For me the last time I actually check the AC website is when they unveil the boats - and I promise you I'm not looking forward with a great deal of anticipation. After that the newpaper headlines are enough for me.
___________________________________

There are those that worry that such an an open ended pproach to the ACC class would ruin the racing. But you just need to look at other classes that have few restrictions - like the Australian skiffs. In the past they used to provide very stable racing until someone came up with something INTERESTING AND NEW. And then things would jump. And after a short time be stable again.

Some of the jumps were
Julian Bethwaites series of "small hull" innovations of the '80s
Murray/Buckland/Buckley's optimised boat approach (rig/hull/systems
Ben Lexcen's "Taipan" plywood boats in the early 60s (which were ruled out - a silly move by the powers that be) or
The Cuneo narrow beam boats from QLD in the 40s (?).

Apart from these bumps the racing in the 18s has been quite close and the innovations have led to real commercial opportunities from Ben Lexcen's time onward.

And the result is one of the most interesting classes in the world - what will be next - now that it is dominated by Bethwaite boats? Possibly no-one has the budget to find out anymore and they have put some rules in place to limit development - 18s have stopped and Moths keep getting faster and faster!

But in the AC they still DO have budget!!!!
_______________________________________

I used to really love this thing called the America's Cup and a huge bulk of the population really used to give a damm. You know - they used to actually televise WHOLE RACES - and not on some cable thingy either - REAL MAINSTREAM TV. And people would buy beers or make lots of coffee (or sometimes both) and wander through life bleary eyed like they do with the World (soccer) Cup.

Anyway - I feel (a little) better now - pity about the cup though

Michael Storer

[hiracer]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

To have a chance against the big two (BMW/Oracle & Alinghi) would take a big commitment.

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

I'm not inclined to think the America's Cup needs fixing.

I think what originally made America's Cup interesting and followed is that it had never been wrestled away, and each year brought the suspense of whether that would be the year. Finally, the inevitable happened.

But nothing of note has replaced the prior dynamics. It's just another boat race, and some times not a very good one. Given the liberal crew rules, it doesn't even really have a real national flavor. Only the money and sponsors come from "a" country, and then of course the sponsors are many times really multinationals.

To make the race interesting, you need suspense. World Cup is the example. Any country can play in World Cup; you never know who is gonna win; and there are more than just a couple of contendors. Can't say that about current AC.

[Crag Cay]

Before you can find a 'fix' for the AC, you have to agree what is the problem. Obviously those taking part in the event like it as it is or they wouldn't be playing. So why isn't anyone else thrilled by it all?

My answer is they never were. It's always been an event between a few rich guys. The papers traditionally tried to play the 'national' angle, the constant 'cheating' by the NYYC was always worth a 'tut tut', and a feeling that it must be 'our turn soon' did slowly ignite some interest in the latter years, but overall no one has ever really cared about it.

That was until Australia won. But that was the story. Period. This then carried over to Fremantle when at least it was a great spectacle in those waves. But since then, yawn, yawn, yawn.......

So for me, people might get some interest if they play these cards - cheap nationalism and rough seas. So we need to find a fixed venue and date (Cornwall in November) and race large one designs (so every country can take part) with crews recruited exclusively from their home countries (including three female D-list celebrities with large chests) and all sailing in National costumes. There would have to be some form of ritual humiliating elimination of the last placed boat in each race with comments from a panel of experts lead by Ted Turner. However the whole results standing could be over turned by the viewers phone vote on a premium rate number, that would pay for the whole thing.

That's the only way you are going to get any mass interest. We just have to accept that all sailing makes rubbish viewing. Even the big trimarans racing inshore are dull after the first 10 seconds. Until there is mass participation in sailing leading to some deeper understanding, most people will only be interested by 'did we win', ain't she cute, or is there a chance of a crash?

But as this will not happen, let the rich blokes do what they want. It's their ball. And a hell of a lot of people do enjoy working for them. Even the design teams are still exploring radical options. At the computer and test tank stage, all possibilities are still being thought through. No one wants to be blind sided, so the tanks are as busy as ever. Brilliant. But no, I shan't watch any of it.

[ABoatGuy]

Look what sells in this country (USA). NASCAR

Try and get a crowd wound up for an F1 race. It won't happen. Technology and pure racing simply don't sell here.

Get the boats crashing, fights on deck, flames, etc. and you will have a product that will be marketable.

O' I forgot . . . all marks are taken to port. You know like in a big round circle, nothing too complicated; and if one boat gets way out in front simply stop the race and declare 'debris in the water'; regroup and then go some more. You have to admit NASCAR knows how to make a big show.

[Crag Cay]

Absolutely - and it's not like there isn't a precedent for it in sailing. Many years ago I was lucky enough to be invited to race on a traditional Family Island boat in the Bahamas. Everything you said (except perhaps the flames) were a feature of those races. In fact, the debris in the water was the crew who were no longer needed on board when the winds went a bit light.

Occasionally, we nearly get near that level of 'excitement' at Cowes Week when several different fleets arrive from different direction at the same turning mark at the same time. But someone always goes and ruins it by insisting that any 'disagreements' should be sorted out by the protest committee instead of right there and then like real thugs.

If fact at Cowes Week, if you could guarantee a strong wind over tide every day, and at least one leg where all the fleets had to beat up along the beach in front of 'The Green', and any disagreements were resolved by umpires with RPGs, you might be able to not only pack out the grandstands but also put sailing back onto prime time.

But less than that and we have to acept it's a sport for do-ers and not fat sports fans sat on their arses swilling beer.

[Mychael]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I want to know why the Australians doesn’t have a team this go around.

.

Is this damm drought we are experiencing, not enough water to pratice in.

Must be "climate change" lolololo

Mychael