America's Cup

[SuperPiper]

Let's not forget that if a 12 metre was to be built in 2006, it would not be wood or aluminum or fibreglass. It would be a carbon fibre egg shell.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by SuperPiper

Let's not forget that if a 12 metre was to be built in 2006, it would not be wood or aluminum or fibreglass. It would be a carbon fibre egg shell.

I wouldn't count on it. IIRC, the IACC boats are required to be made of carbon fiber. The advantage of lighter hull material only goes so far. A swedish 12 was made out of aluminum yet still had a 92% ballast/displacement ratio. In a displacement design, I can't imagine better than that doing any more than making the rubble bounce.

More likely, the money that would have paid for the carbon fiber would have gone into to further tank testing (they loved to tank test in those days) and other research. Possibly sail and/or keel design.

Bob

[safewalrus]

does tank testing include massive beer consumption? I can do that as long as someone else is paying! (there's a few others can too apparantly)!!

[gggGuest]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

I wouldn't count on it.

Without the slightest doubt. With the layup requirements of the rules a hightech twelve would be immensely stiffer and thus faster than an alloy one. That's why the Kiwi plasic boats were so good in 1988. They're easily the fastest 12s ever built, but they weren't campaigned as well as Connor's boat because the Kiwis got complacent.

[brian eiland]

I must appolgize for not following my own advice to first 'search' for the subject matter on the forum before starting a new thread. I failed to do so when I quickly posted these discussions concerning the America's Cup when there was already considerable discussion.

So I will make a cross-link between the two subject threads:
America's Cup sailed in Multihulls

[tamkvaitis]

I think AC is **** race powered by huge money and nothing else. These boats can't sail in strong winds, they can't sail in high seas and so on. So why to bother. I am european and i Don't understand the beauty of this drag style sailing.

[Guillermo]

Maybe of general interest...
http://www.sailboat-technology.com/links/SNAME-2002.pdf
http://www.americascup.com/datas/textes/accv5.pdf
https://pronet.wsatkins.co.uk/marnet...Cup_yachts.pdf
http://www.esotec.co.nz/condorkeel/index.html

[hiracer]

As a non-designer and a non-racer, any boat that can't move safely without its motor running ain't a sailboat in my book. Nor do I have an interest in watching it race.

Sailboats are wind and human powered. Motors to operate canting keels, move water ballast, or handle sheet loads pose no interest to me. I can't relate.

I don't have a motor on my bicycle, even though the technology is available. I mean, what's the point?

FWIW.

* * *

Also, I do think there should be strict residency requirements. Nationalism hasn't seem to hurt World Cup Soccer one bit. Quite the opposite, actually.

[usa2]

"As a non-designer and a non-racer, any boat that can't move safely without its motor running ain't a sailboat in my book. Nor do I have an interest in watching it race."

So then theres no problem with the America's Cup Class in your opinion?

[hiracer]

I wish there were some residency requirments, so some true nationalism could re-enter the race. That really does make it interesting.

Almost any rule-based race is going to produce boats that are less than useful outside the race. That's the nature of the beast. So the basic decision is whether the race is going to be class racing, rule racing, or neither.

The latter lends itself to the largest pocket book winning, not very interesting IMO. Class racing can be exciting depending on race structure.

Rule racing, like current AC, is fun too. But boat size should be restricted so that it's not so expensive that winning defaults to the largest wallet.

If you choose rule-based racing, then you have to decide what flavor. More open rules tend to product the largest design differences, which at first can produce uninteresting races as the fastest boat walks away from everybody else. But over several iterations, the rest of the fleet will catch up, unless you keep changing the rules as apparently is the modern approach. Changing the rules again tilts in favor of the largest pocket book. Not very interesting.

America's Cup lost its identity when race organizers decided not to let the race become a multihull race. Too bad. That would have been interesting and fun. As it stands now, AC has no real identity. It's at risk of becoming just another race, unconnected to its rich history.

Odd enough, I think this fate could have been avoided if the powers-that-be let the race become a multihull race. The choice to stay monohull has had the exact opposite effect of what was intended. The ever changing rules are divorcing the race from its history, which was the appeal of the race in the first place. I don't expect anybody to agree with me because the sailing community has such an irrational distaste for more than one hull (I sail monohull), but I really think the appeal of this race lies in its history, not the race itself. Continuity of rule is important in that sense. IMO.

In any case, please don't put motors on sailboats, as is being done in other races. It's a violation of the spirit of the sport. Yes, it lends itself to faster boats, but so do propellers.

[Guillermo]

May also be of interest:
http://www.oossanen.nl/pubs/VOA_MY_ACCDesign.pdf

[hiracer]

The author indirectly agrees with me, that stability of the rule will produce a race decided by sailors rather than the boat.

If the rule stays in effect long enough, the race becomes class racing, the class being defined by a rule that is uniform in its concrete application (more or less).

Now, you brilliant designers out there, can you come up with a racing rule that results in a safe, fast, easy motion cruiser that will save racing from itself.

[Saf]

To the people who think that the Cup boats design is good I agree it might not be the best though to the others all what I would say to those;

DEAR FRIENDS,

YOU HAVE TO SAIL ONBOARD ONE OF THEM TO FEEL HOW THEY FAST THEY CAN GO BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY WERE BUILT TO GO FAST AND WIN THE RACES!

CHEERS, RACING FREAK "SAF"

[Saf]

sorry for the writing mistakes!

[marshmat]

I can't say I'm a big fan of the modern AC, really.... with the latest version of the rule, there is so little freedom to try new things that it often feels like a $100M one-design class. What I'd like to see is a rule that caps LOA and sets basic safety requirements, maybe an allowed displacement range, but otherwise lets the designer do pretty much whatever they want. I'd like to see a return to the spirit of the race that brought the Cup to America in the first place. Any thoughts?