ALternate sail plans?

[BHOFM]

I am building a 12' sail, row dory. It is cat rigged with
a 16'6" mast.

I would like to consider a gaff rig.

The mast step and dagger board case are not installed
yet. I was also thinking of installing a compression post
and step the mast on top of the mast bench to gain a
foot and a half of height.??

I would like for the mast, gaff, boom and oars to all go
inside the boat so a cover could be fitted, like the life
boats on the old sailing ships.

The mast would need to be 11'6" to fit inside the hull.

This is what I have come up with...?? Performance is
not an issue, it is just a "get away from things" boat.
If the boat moves around the lake on it's own it will
be great.

Hull weight is around 100lbs.

Please tell me where I have gone wrong and what I need
to do. Or just build it the way it shows?

[Manie B]

it is just a "get away from things" boat.

I would like to consider a gaff rig.

i agree wholeheartedly - GO FOR IT

most of the members here know that i have been on about gaff rigs all the time, i have asked many many silly questions, and this forum has corrected me and sent me on the right path often.

My new boat will be a Gaffer because

1. i can make the rigging myself from galvanised componentry

2. to scandalise the main is EASY under ANY direction - i dont have to come about into the wind

3. i can make my own sails - flat cut is ok by me

4. IT IS BEAUTIFULL

in my country things have become so unbelievably expensive that if you cant make it yourself you basically cant have it

[Manie B]

I will keep you posted on my suggestions for the gaff rig as i will be starting on the rig in about 3 weeks time

[BHOFM]

I was thinking, 3.5" round mast, 2" boom, 1.75" gaff.
I would like for the mast to make the ridge pole for the
cover.

I am going to use polytarp sails.

The boat will be stored in an airplane hanger that is open
to others, no the general public, it does have video surveillance.
I think the boat would be more secure if it was, "self contained.

Thanks for the reply.

[TeddyDiver]

For a boat of that size I'd consider Gunter rig. It's kind of gaff or a yard topsail of a gaff rigged boat. Having advantages of a gaff with short length spars and higher aspect ratio like bermudan..

[BHOFM]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

For a boat of that size I'd consider Gunter rig. It's kind of gaff or a yard topsail of a gaff rigged boat. Having advantages of a gaff with short length spars and higher aspect ratio like bermudan..

That is just what I was looking for, a telescoping mast,,

Goes to windward as well as a cat and takes up half the
room! Easy to build as well. An 8 foot upper pole would
keep everything on the same scale as the plans.

Thanks Mr. D

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by BHOFM

I am building a 12' sail, row dory. It is cat rigged with
a 16'6" mast.

I would like to consider a gaff rig.

The mast step and dagger board case are not installed
yet. I was also thinking of installing a compression post
and step the mast on top of the mast bench to gain a
foot and a half of height.??

I would like for the mast, gaff, boom and oars to all go
inside the boat so a cover could be fitted, like the life
boats on the old sailing ships.

The mast would need to be 11'6" to fit inside the hull.

This is what I have come up with...?? Performance is
not an issue, it is just a "get away from things" boat.
If the boat moves around the lake on it's own it will
be great.

Hull weight is around 100lbs.

Please tell me where I have gone wrong and what I need
to do. Or just build it the way it shows?

Hi, Bohfm.

First of all, it looks like you have a 'sharpie' or 'flat iron skiff' not a dory.

A dory has a much narrower stern and has much greater flair to the sides. A dory that size would never support a 16 ft mast. Sail rigged ones I've seen have much shorter and lower aspect ratio rigs. This is because their bottoms are kept as narrow as possible to facilitate easy rowing.

The gaff rig you have drawn has too short of a mast to hold the gaff up with sufficient tension to keep it from sagging off. This could be helped by setting the butt of the gaff lower on the mast, allowing the gaff to peak up at a higher angle, but it would cost you some sail area.

Then, if you used this rig, you would have to move the dagger board case aft to compensate for the more aft Center of Area of the new sail. One way around this would be to set up a short bowsprit and hang a small jib on it, but then you would need a jib stay and at least two shrouds to keep the jib tight.

There are two other sail types you might consider.

One is the square sprit sail which would have the same shape as the gaff sail you drew, but have a diagonally set pole, called a sprit, holding the peak up rather than a gaff.

The other is a balanced lug, where the gaff becomes a yard and crosses the mast instead of butting up against it. This way, you can have sail area in front of the mast, moving the Center of Area further forward and perhaps saving you the need to move either the dagger board or the mast. Such a sail is very popular with the 'PD racer' crowd (see www.pdracer.com) and has worked quite well.

[BHOFM]

The Gunter rig seems like the way to go. A sliding upper
mast that extends 4' about the top of the main mast.

I found a picture that is just what I need.

I won't need to adjust the dagger board location.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../F5_Gunter.gif

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../F6_Gunter.gif

By the way,, the plans just call it a row boat, sailboat.

[sharpii2]

Hi, Bhofm.

I think you made the right decision.

The gunter rig will have a sail shape close to the original shown on the plans and should also have a very similar Center of Area.

Good luck on your project.

[rgranger]

If appearances matter you might want to use a new sheet. LOL

[ancient kayaker]

First, like Bob said, you should ensure the center of area of the new sail is close to the original design - it looks further aft to me.

I am also building a small rowing/sailing sharpie, a 10' car topper in my case, aiming for 60 lb hull weight. I have the same objective, short mast elements that can fit inside my van, and there are low bridges on my local pond to be taken into account. I am unsure which rig I want so I will experiment. I want to try out a spritsail, a gaff or lug, and maybe a Bermuda or Una. I may even fool around with a lateen. I will build a 2-piece mast that can be converted to a Gunter rig later if I wish. And yes, I have been accused of having an aversion to commitment ...

I will step the mast through the foredeck and will have 3 positions to do this so I can select whatever works best with each of several rigs I plan to try out. I built the forward part of the keel as an inverted Tee girder, and the mast step is an inverted U that slides along the keel and can be clamped at any location, for tuning purposes. Later I will glue it where I decide it should go and plug the unwanted holes in the foredeck.

This thread has been as much help to me as it was to you. Don’t know if any of the above gives you food for thought but good luck with your building and sailing.

[BHOFM]

Well,, as you know mine is done. I went with the 12' mast and made a sail
for it. I thought I might add the gunter later if needed, but the boat sails
so well like it is I am going to leave it alone. Sort of a Leg O' Mutton.

[messabout]

Here is a tale of interest for those who insist on making their own sails.

In 1921 The submarine USS-R-14 was stationed at Pearl Harbor. They were asked to take part in the search for a missing tug, USS Conestoga. The sub took on fuel and supplies and set out on the mission on May 2, 1921. A week later the sub was mysteriously out of fuel. They were out of range for radio contact to would be rescuers. They had only a limited store of provisions and damn well had to do something. They did. They decided to try to sail back to Pearl.

May 12 the crew started making sails out of hammocks sewn together two deep and six long. They used a torpedo loading king post for a mast. A top boom was made by lashing five pipe framed bunks end to end. A gaffer it was. The sail got the sub moving but very slowly. Estimated at one knot. The crew laid to and started more sails made from six blankets two wide and six long. This was attached to the radio mast. Other spars were made from more bunk rails and a torpedo loading boom. The boat now made two knots and made it to port at Hilo after five days of smooth sailing. The Honolulu Star Bulletin reported the strange sight of the approaching "sailing sub". Yankee ingenuity at it's finest or sheer desperation, it makes a good story that happens to be true.

[ancient kayaker]

there's a picture on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US...under_sail.jpg

[messabout]

AK; Lucifer or some other nefarious individual must have visited us both. I have a tiny little dink on my drawing board. It is to fit inside my Honda Element. The Element is too tall to make cartopping desirable. The tiny flattie will be 9'-0 x 42". It'll be a bit tiddly I fear. Calculations appear to give it a bit more than 200 foot pounds of righting moment at 25 degrees. Lightness is a primary goal. I hope to get by with about 60 pounds hull weight. I will use 6mm Okume for the bottom and glue/lapstrake the sides with 4mm. All this because I dont like to mess with the trailer under my larger sharpie, and of course there is that urging from the devil who visits me uninvited. I too will experiment with different rigs and have multiple mast locations. The name of the boat will be E.D. Not the kind of ED for which you can get purple pills. Element Dink = ED.

Here's hoping that neither of us drown.