AD14/16 vs. PocketShip

[jpb]

What do you think about the seaworthness of this sailboats:
- AD 14/16 (http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=AD14 / http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=AD16)
- PocketShip (http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/s...OCKETSHIP.html)

Which one is more seaworthy?

jpb

[bistros]

Originally Posted by jpb

What do you think about the seaworthness of this sailboats:
- AD 14/16 (http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=AD14 / http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=AD16)
- PocketShip (http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/s...OCKETSHIP.html)

Which one is more seaworthy?

jpb

Unless someone here has sailed both extensively, I doubt anyone is really qualified to answer. With boats this small, it isn't the boat that you have to question about seaworthiness, it is usually the person sailing the boat.

I'm NOT trying to be negative here, but small, relatively easy-to-build boats are often chosen by newer sailors because they are achievable, affordable and unintimidating. If you've sailed a lot, you would know that all small boats have their issues - short waterline length makes for slower speed, high resistance to capsizing generally means either lots of ballast or width - both of which contribute to even slower speed. Either way, be prepared to be passed by Optis and people paddling inflatable rafts.

Given the current financial climate, if I were in your shoes, I'd consider buying a used boat for a season or two's use. You can buy more boat than either of these choices today for less than the cost of materials to build one. Just a thought.

I'm all for building boats (I'm building one right now), but build the right boat for the right reasons - and this means really knowing what you want. To really know what you want, you have to sail for a couple seasons in the general boat type to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Make sure you are okay with being the slowest boat out there.

Good luck with your quest!

--
Bill

[Manie B]

I am building something along these lines anyway
mine is a fun project and the idea is to experiment with as many different sail configurations as the budget will allow

i have been a very keen reader of most of the small pocket cruisers out there and i have done a LOT of research on the boats you mention (and watched the videos on youtube)

I like the Bateau AD16 and feel that you can make it unsinkable easily
that will be safe and seaworthy

this design offers all the features to make a very nice seaworthy vessel

anyway get building
anything
it changes your life forever
best hobby EVER

[jpb]

Originally Posted by bistros

If you've sailed a lot, you would know that all small boats have their issues - short waterline length makes for slower speed, high resistance to capsizing generally means either lots of ballast or width - both of which contribute to even slower speed. ...
To really know what you want, you have to sail for a couple seasons in the general boat type to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Make sure you are okay with being the slowest boat out there.

Hallo Bill,

I am sailing since 33 years. I owned diferent yachts up to 9,5 m and chartered yachts up to 12 m.

I know that a longer boat is more seaworhty and faster. But I would like to own a small sailing boat.

So I am interested in comparing the AD 14/16 an the PocketShip.


Hallo Manie,

Originally Posted by Manie B

I like the Bateau AD16 and feel that you can make it unsinkable easily
that will be safe and seaworthy. This design offers all the features to make a very nice seaworthy vessel

I like the AD16, too. It was my favorite. Just few days ago I read about PocketShip. It looks great. But I am not sure if it is a seaworthy as AD14/AD16?

jpb

[Manie B]

What i really dont like about the pocketship is that front "bow-pit"
even if it is self draining

i know that he went for a "traditional" look, and on the videos she sails well in protected waters

but

the extra large cockpit is wasted space, guys often sail these boats alone,
i prefer a bigger cabin for overnight camping and comfort when it rains

bateau's build methods are simpler to me and bateau's forum is excellent

to get back to the question - seaworthy?
the AD16 can be built to satisfy that easily

http://bateau.com/boats/AD16/index.html

my boat that i am building, is in fact very similar, with the open transom
i am making my side decks flush so that you sit on the boat rather than in the boat

last but not least, i prefer function over form, or better said - i cant be bothered with "traditional looks"
I want a "modern" boat and design and i feel that the AD16 does that

[bistros]

With all due respect to Manie, the feedback you have received is exactly why I feel someone who has actually sailed/built the boats should be your best source of information.

Based on paper plans and magazine articles, conclusions are being drawn about sailing abilities. Based on websites, conclusions are being drawn regarding simplicity and ease of build.

Although Manie makes some good and possibly very valid points, the feedback you are getting is not from first hand experience.

Everyone has their personal likes and dislikes about designs in general. Things that can be intolerable to one person may be unnoticed by another. Boats are personal, so my point about actually sailing the boats is very important. Since both are established designs, and both companies are credible and solid, I'd contact the designers and ask about local owners you could contact - for advice, trial sails and build feedback.

In general I agree with a lot of what Manie has to say, but in this case you should form your own opinions.

--
Bill

[Manie B]

Here is some more interesting reading

you may even find someone close to you that has got one

http://forums.bateau2.com/search.php...&keywords=ad16

[jpb]

Thank you Manie for your detailed answer.

A few weeks ago, a read everythink I could find about AD14 and AD16.

Jan

[messabout]

You have used the term: Seaworthy. That is an elusive term that is a subjective matter. If you are thinking of sailing from Hamburg to Bergen, then neither of these are sufficiently seaworthy. If you are going to gunkhole around placid bays and inlets, either of them may suffice. I would favor the larger boat for several reasons, seakeeping among those reasons.

Bistros is probably right about both of these boats being sluggards. That one of them is pictured with a good sized spinnaker is evidence that they will need considerable urging. I would die and go to hell before needing a $700 chute on a boat that is supposed to provide a leisurely camp cruise.

There are stories, told for truth, about seasoned watermen who have survived force six weather in a 14 foot Maine Peapod. Tough little boat, even tougher watermen. So seaworthiness is a matter of crew skill, experience, and judgement, as well as the ability of the boat.

My area has a group of people who call themselves; Florida Trailer Sailers. (they have a web site) They have all sorts of little boats like these. Among the popular ones are Peep Hens, Sea Pearls and West Wight Potters. These guys travel regularly to venues around the state for "messabouts" and camp cruising. They have big time fun because they have experience with boatmanship and they are careful to avoid foul weather and dangerous places. The little boats that they use are thus entirely satisfactory.