40class boats

[Vega]

The "Route du Rhum" has begun today and I am very curious about the performance of the new 40Class.

There are 25 boats in this class, and for a new class it is a kind of record, but the main interest is that this class will allow almost everybody to race with a performing fast boat, because the budgets are low.

The boats are fast, but all hi-tech. expensive materials are out. The results are 25 inscriptions, lots of interesting boats, and a real link between pure racing boats and very fast cruising boats. I think that the next modern cruising fast boats will be heavily influenced by these ones.

The cost of these boats, including racing sails, is between 200 000 and 300 000 euros and total costs of the race are between 60 000 and 150 000 euros.

http://www.class40racing.com/4436/16226.html

http://www.class40racing.com/index2.html

http://www.skipper40.com/bateau_class40.php

http://www.routedurhum-labanqueposta...01p01_home.php

http://www.skipper40.com

http://www.class40.com/index.php?section=14

[Guillermo]

Taken from http://www.class40racing.com/index2.html :
Owen Clarke Design also claim of their long coachroof design: "Designed for true offshore competitive performance but also as a dual role yacht in which the family can take off cruising, rolling off fast effortless miles to those holiday destinations. The characteristics of a solo race boat will make her a reliable and steady short handed fast cruiserwith the foot released a little of the accelerator and a cold beer released from the ice box!"

My God...!

(See more comments on this at the STIX, etc, thread in Stability Forums)

[safewalrus]

Exactly Guillermo, when does a dinghy stop being a dinghy? It scares me - maybe as an out and out race boat manned by big hairy gorillas yes! but as a family boat .......

[Vega]

Gorilla, Safewalrus, Gorilla, just one. It is a solo race.
And if a lonely Gorilla can oceanrace that boat, another Gorilla (with a lot less sail and not pressed to go fast) can safely cruise on that boat with his family The family can even can give him some help.

[safewalrus]

Yeah Vega, sorry GorillA. Yep and you can cross Oceans on a raft of balsa logs but is it safe or comfortable? Only the ones who never made it can tell you that! and they aren't talking! But is it sensible to go to sea in a sieve? You gotta start somewhere!

[marshmat]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong, from an engineering standpoint, with the idea of having a boat that is both fast enough to race and comfortable enough to cruise. Surely we've been developing yachts for enough centuries that we can figure out a way to do that.
From a sailing standpoint, the new 40s look seriously cool, and I would love to be able to afford one. It looks like cost is a major issue in the new class and I'm glad they've taken some steps to keep prices down.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by marshmat

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong, from an engineering standpoint, with the idea of having a boat that is both fast enough to race and comfortable enough to cruise. Surely we've been developing yachts for enough centuries that we can figure out a way to do that.
From a sailing standpoint, the new 40s look seriously cool, and I would love to be able to afford one. It looks like cost is a major issue in the new class and I'm glad they've taken some steps to keep prices down.

Yup, there are thousands of racer/cruiser sailboats. Every ounce of creature comfort tips the scale towards the cruiser end.

It is possible to travel cross country in a F-1 car or a Winnebago.

Getting the Winnebago to be as fast as the F-1 car is the problem. If you are happy with a tent over the cockpit, the F-1 car becomes a motor-home.

The nice thing about boats and cars (as my old car salesman said) is "There's an ass for every seat."

I know of a family of 7 that cruise on a J-24 ... go figure.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

it is safe or comfortable?

Comfortable? No; Safe? More safe than many so-called oceangoing boats of that size.
They seem unsafe boats, because they are light and open, but they have their ballast deep down in a big bulb and will be harder to capsize than most cruising boats of that size.

Originally Posted by RHough

The nice thing about boats and cars (as my old car salesman said) is "There's an ass for every seat."

Yes, and it should be like that, otherwise it would be a very boring world.

Originally Posted by marshmat

From a sailing standpoint, the new 40s look seriously cool, and I would love to be able to afford one. It looks like cost is a major issue in the new class and I'm glad they've taken some steps to keep prices down.

Some of those boats exist already as production boats and are not very expensive boats.
When I have time I will post links.

I will post here a very interesting post by Grag Cay about these boats. It was posted on the STIX thread:

Originally Posted by Crag Cay

I'm sorry Guillermo, but I fail to understand any of your implied criticisms of this class. It seems to me to be one of the more carefully considered classes and one I welcome whole heatedly. I can find very little in either their ethos or detail that is less than commendable.

The class requirement to comply with the various ISO regs is a neat way of controlling various parameters at the design stage. But as you say, these are racing boats and therefore RCD compliance is not legally required, so involvement of the Notified Bodies and their cost, can be avoided. However, the class has instigated a series of measurement tests to check class rule compliance, OSR Regs and by inference, ISO compliance when combined with data from the designers. This includes weighing each boat and performing the 90 degree recovery test, that was developed, and has proved effective with the Open Classes. In this instant it is performed in the least stable configuration, ie with 750kgs of water ballast in its least favourable position.

Wide beam and flat decks are recognised as a problem and hence there is a deck and coach house volume requirement (above the sheer plane) in the rules to try and minimise this.
……
When I campaigned an IOR 2 tonner, it took 14 crew to race it competitively under IOR, but I raced it happily double handed and enjoyed miles of cruising either alone or with attractive, but nautically clueless young ladies. And that was before self tailing winches, ATN snuffers and roller furling to help.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

Yeah Vega, sorry GorillA.

Take a look at some of those lonely Gorillas. I bet they can take you safely across the Atlantic…as a passenger.

[Vega]

At this moment the first boat is finishing the race, at Guadalupe. The line honors go for Lionel Lemonchois and Gitana 11, the first of the trimarans.

The First of the 40class is still some days back. No problem with any of the boats. They sailed with a lot of wind and occasionally went at 20k. Not bad for inexpensive boats, that you can reconvert in fast cruising boats.

Some of them were cruising boats that have been converted in racing boats. You can recognize them in the photos, because they have standard portholes.

Some photos of the boats:

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by RHough

...."There's an ass for every seat."

I could be ironic on that statement just by adding a four lettered word to the sentence, but let's say I will not do it....

[Vega]

The most popular boat on the 40 Class is the Pogo 40 (on this race and class, 11 boats out of 25) , a production boat that has two versions, cruising and racing.

And this does not mean that you can not cruise with a racing boat, because the differences are minimal. You can order a racing boat with a cruising interior, it will not make a significant difference in weight and the Ballasts are interchangeable (3m and 2.2M).

The Boat was designed by Groupe Finot, by Jean Marie and Pascal Conq, two designers that are out of that group of NA who design boats without sailing them. These two are real sailors and they talk like sailors:

"For the Structures shipyard, we designed the Pogo 40 in the new spirit of offshore boats that are going back to the essence of sailing.
It is meant for those who want open sea, long journeys or transatlantic racing.
Fast boat, easy to control even with reduced crew.
Strong hull, deep ballast (3 m or 2,2 m interchangeable ).
Large sail area on a carbon mast.
Water ballasts, very simple rig."

Or in the words of the builders:

"Our goal was to design a boat capable of achieving a compromise between fast racing and long distance cruising. We decided that a 40 foot (12.20 m) boat was the ideal length. A length that would be manouverable, even for amateurs.

And so the Pogo 40 was born...Designed to travel long distances at high speeds. A boat that is simple to sail even with a reduced number of crew. A serious boat which is easy to maintain. A trustworthy boat, sure and unsinkable.

With the new Pogo 40 you can line up at the start of any one of the international offshore races, such as the Route de Rhum or the English Transat or take you family on a long distance trip across the Atlantique during a sabbatical year. "


http://www.pogostructures.com/files/...6_16:43:58.pdf

http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batprod...pogo40_ang.htm

http://www.pogostructures.com/?m=4&s=1&l=en


Tomorrow I will post the other production boats on the 40class.

Regards

[Vega]

About the performance of these boats, go here:

http://www.routedurhum-labanqueposta...1p01_home.php#

Click in CHARTS and enjoy yourself clicking on the dots and seeing the position and the picture of the boat. They are in the middle of the 40ft/50ft cats and not very far from the slower open 60

Tomorrow the leader of the 40 class is going to find 40knot winds...I think he is going to left a lot of bigger boats behind.

[Vega]

About the seaworthiness of these boats, the last "news" from the official race site is enlightening. The site has almost nothing in English, so I offer you a very free translation:

Apocalyptic....50k of wind and 8 m waves.”:
"The wind reached 60K"
“we try to find the right compromise between going fast and stay in one piece”.
“The sea was completely white and it seemed it was making a lot of smoke”
“It was incredible, we were doing surfs at 24k”
“ The wind is blowing steadily at 50 k”
“ I was going with a reef in the main sail when a huge breaking wave exploded over the boat. I was projected out of the boat. When the boat righted itself up I was projected (by the life line) to the other side of the boat. More fear than a problem”.
“That’s my 5th Transat and I have never seen nothing like this. Three days with 50k winds, one of them close-winded.”
“I knew that the RHUM was an adventure, but I was not expecting so much”.

http://www.routedurhum-labanqueposta....php?classe=60

Tomorrow another storm is getting them.

From the twenty-five 40’s none has capsized (several cats did not have the same chance) and only one of them retired from the race (keel problems). The other 24 are doing a well of a race and proving that these boats are great boats.

What impresses me most is that they are still racing and trying to go as fast as they can. Apparently 50k is a bit uncomfortable for them, but not really dangerous to the point of assuming survival tactics.

What are the limits of these boats? They are solo crewed, we must assume that with a crew, the limits would be even broader.

It seems that these boats are not only very fast but also very seaworthy.

[Vega]

The new 40class have also raised a lot of interest among Naval architects.
Lots of boats from different designers even if the Groupe Finot (Pogo) is responsible for 11 boats (out of 25).

But amazingly in the first 7 places (at this moment), there are boats designed by 5 different Nas.

1th and 2th –Groupe Finot
3th and 6th – Jules Marin (these are the boats made of wood composite and with chines).
4th- Pierre Rolland
5th – Marc Lombard
7th- Owen Clarke

Owen Clarke is the only one that is not French. He is British, and says about is boat:

“Designed for true offshore competitive performance but also as a dual role yacht in which the family can take off cruising, rolling off fast effortless miles to those holiday destinations. The characteristics of a solo race boat will make her a reliable and steady short handed fast cruiser, with the foot released a little of the accelerator and a cold beer released from the ice box! “

And he says about himself:

“Like many good yacht designers, we once built our own boats too,... Most importantly, we are experienced and competitive sailors... “

It looks like this one also don’t belong to that group that designs boats without sailing them.