23' Columbia

[timgoz]

Bqman,

Chandler is right on with his suggestion you get a survey done. Do not ask the seller or anyone associated with him to recommend one! That goes without saying.

Older boats, as stated, tended to be built stronger.

With newer production boats prices are easier to generalize. It is a crapshoot with older boats. There are to many variables to consider.

Different conditions: Salt or freshwater? Rocky area or sand/mud?

Different owners: Level of care & mainanence, amount of use. Severity of use. Equipment updates or lack thereof. Groundings, fires, rigging failures, & how damages such as these have been repaired. Sail condition. Engine condition. Integrity of hull, mast, rudder, ect,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You could easily right a book on it and still not have a formula that worked on all occassions.

A good & reputable surveyor can tell you approx. what it is worth and what it WILL take to make her proper. If you have to ask others for help evaluating the boat, I feel a surveyor would be money well spent.

Take care.

TGoz

[Bqman]

Thank you both Mychael and timgoz. That was very helpful advise. So now my next question would be, where and how much do boat surveyers cost?

[timgoz]

I just took a minute and Googled 3 surveyors right in Huntsville. Get out your phone book and find several. Call at least 3 and get estimates. You may find that some will not want to bother for such an old & small boat. I am sure you will find someone though.

This is only an approximation, but a survey should run between $400-$500 for such a boat. Others probably will have a more accurate idea.

Though this seems expensive, it may well turn out to be one of the best bargains you ever make.

You can approach the boat owner with the results & possibly use them to bargain the price down considerably.

Hope things work out for you.

TGoz

[Bqman]

Thanks. Thanks alot.

[Bqman]

Well I checked out the columbia and it seems like a good boat. It has a trailer and a Mariner 8hp motor. Slight leak in the ports but nothing major. Bottom might need to be repainted and the gel coat still looks like it could last about another year maybe two. Plus it has a bimini top and new sails. So do you guys still think that $3500 is too much or should I try to negotiate a price with the guy? What would you guys think is a reasonable price?

[Mychael]

As regards surveyor costs. Mine was around $700 as I recall. He was with the boat about 3.5 hrs maybe a little more.
A little ancedote about that.This was a surveyor from a well known company, I believe well respected. Even so I still discovered things he had missed in the inspection. These only came to light when I owned the boat and had unlimited time to play with every little thing and get some sea miles up. Be through as you can possibly be.. Be anal about it, the owner should not mind, after all he wants to make a sale.
Did you mention the engine needed work? I don't know about other places but I was told by a 2nd hand outboard place that the reason they don't carry motors less then 15Hp is that the cost of repairing a small motor is not much less then just purchaseing a new one.
So if the motor really needs "work" then factor in the cost to buy a new one.

Mychael

[Bqman]

Actually, I thought the motor might need work. I'm not sure, the owner said that it ran but he had another motor that was better so he just stored this in hopes to use it again but now decided to just get rid of it with the boat. So, it probably should be fine, might need a tune up, but I'm not sure. What usually happens to a motor when it sits for a few years without use?

[Mychael]

I'm just being pessimistic here but it's your money. So remember that something might "run" as in start but there is "running" and being up to doing it's job. Two different things.
Lack of use can kill motors. Corrosion would be your biggest concern, again it depends on how it was looked after and maintained during it's life.
Check what sort of condition the propellor is like make sure you start the motor at least in a test tank but preferably fit it to a little dinghy or something if you can and actually motor it around a bit.

Mychael

[Bqman]

It seems like most people don't think this boat is a good buy. It's too bad because I kind of liked it but I'm not going to make a mistake on my first boat purchase. The problem with surveyors, if they even agree to do the survey, it's about $500. Which if I was buying a boat for $15,000-$20,000 would definetly be worth it. But I'm looking for boats for less $4000. $500 is a lot of money to spend especially since I'm not looking at just one boat but close to a dozen. I can't spend that much money everytime I look at a boat. If I do even come down to maybe one or two main choices and then get a surveyor, his costs is a big ratio among the price of the boat. If the boat costs $3500, another $500-600 is not worth spending when I could use that money on repairing or customizing the boat to my liking. Everyone is pretty helpful here so don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing, I don't know how you guys buy and sell boats and the type of boats you do sail. I'm just a beginner looking to get a cheap, small sailboat that I can cruise around in and get the hang of sailing.

[Mychael]

Your boat may well be perfectly fine. I cannot comment on it's inherent value as I am not familier with the model. It might be a great purchase. It's just all the other things you need to be aware of that we can give opinions on.
I take your point in surveyor costs. My boat was bought for $20,000 so the surveying was a small percentage of it all.
You could try to do a search for owners clubs of the particular models you are interested in, that would give you very helpfull type specific information.
I started out with a list of about 10 boats when I started shopping.
Six I was able to delete from making phone calls.
I actually looked at 6 others. Of those 6 ,one had glass that was cracking in the gelcoat, another looked good but was not a well known model and "may" have had a fast and cheap tidy up to make it look good for a sale.
Another was too spartan for my needs.
#4 was nice and the owner seemed meticulous in his care but it was basically equipped and he would not move on the price at all.
That brought me down to the final 2. Both owners dropped price on initial negotiations. One boat was a bit larger but was also 8 yrs older then my other on the "short" list.
Both were known brands but like you I did not want to be doing endless surveys and getting no-where.
So I went for the newer boat of the two and paid to have it slipped and surveyed.
The survey was okay but I was not happy so argued the owner down a bit more on price. Before I closed the deal I contacted the owner of boat #2 and tried to get him down a bit more but he held fast, so I settled with the other boat.
Had the survey shown up major issues or had this owner not been willing to negotiate further then I would have opted for my other choice.
Your not "in relative terms" spending a lot on a boat.
One option to consider would be to try to negotiate down as much as you possibly can. Inspect the boat yourself being as meticulous as you can be, try to get the owner to take you out for a test sail and then,,,, hold your breath and go for it.
Nothing wrong with looking at as many boats as you can before you commit. The more you see the the better idea you will have of what is around in the price range you are working in.
A mate of mine paid about $4,000 for a trailer/sailer , then spent a goos six weeks going right over it before putting it in the water. He has a ball and never any major problems.
Good Luck. Keeping asking quesions, it's the only way to learn and there are people here that are very experienced and knowlegable. I'm just an owner.

Mychael

[longliner45]

go to ebay ..tons of boats for cheap,,,,,,,,,wwish I went there first,longliner

[Bqman]

Thanks again Mychael. Of course I checked ebay, but I'm in no hurry to buy a boat. I want to shop around, see what's out there and make a smart decision. Ebay has a time deadline and I don't want to make a rash decision based on time. I just don't know what to look for but this site has been helpful. Unfortanately, I can't see as many boats as I want because I usaually have to drive a couple of hours or more to see a boat. I've seen about half a dozen so far and next weekend I'll see another two.