21st Century Daysailer/Weekender

[Doug Lord]

Since there are a lot of new people who may not have seen this thread I thought I'd bump it up and see if there are any new suggestions. Please take the time to check out the whole thread.
Thanks!


Pictures: TS-18 an 18' daysailor I designed and did the tooling for-88 sold, The "20' Motorsailer"- a one off mini motorsailer/weekender with a 15hp Yanmar based on the 18 hull with a 2' swim platform and fixed keel added. Inside and outside steering station. Lots of fun especially when it was rough.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by souljour2000

Right..I always get confused with the term PAR... high-aspect wings are actually very thin right?...like the wings of fighter jet instead of the thick-cross section of a much-slower but high-lift Piper or Cessna wing...not really practical for bilge keeler to support its weight...and not break them off...

Aspect Ratio is generally a comparison of the length (Span) of the wing to its width (cord), not thickness. IIRC, the formula goes like this:

Span * Span/Area = Aspect Ratio

For a keel, centerboard, or dagger board, the formula would be like this:

Depth * Depth/Area = Aspect Ratio.

Cord (Width, in the case of airplane wings, or or Length, in the case of keels) is not mentioned in this formula because, with most wings, the Cord varies along the span, usually being greater at the root than at the tip.

[Doug Lord]

The Nomad was not mentioned previously and should be-it seems like a great daysailer. Designed by Bob Ames......

LOA: 17'2”
Beam: 8'
Draft: 4'2”
Sail Area: 175 Square Feet
Hull Weight: 625 Pounds
Colors: Blue hull
See the pdf below( a bit dated but still interesting):

(click on image)

[nordvindcrew]

Have you looked at the Com-Pac Sun Cat? That is at the top of my dream list ( pretty pricey for my wallet ) but it looks good, is easy to rig and has minimal accomodations for two.

[BobBill]

Originally Posted by nordvindcrew

Have you looked at the Com-Pac Sun Cat? That is at the top of my dream list ( pretty pricey for my wallet ) but it looks good, is easy to rig and has minimal accomodations for two.

Looks like a Lightning, sans chines, comfy, up dated...very nice boat...wonder how long it takes to rig off trailer?

[Doug Lord]

This is one of the most innovative new designs(by jelfiser) for a daysailer that I have had the pleasure to run into-a sailboat/rib.
http://www.maribelle.it/?setlang=en

click on image:

[sean9c]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

This is one of the most innovative new designs(by jelfiser) for a daysailer that I have had the pleasure to run into-a sailboat/rib.
http://www.maribelle.it/?setlang=en

click on image:

Sorry but I don't understand the point. Get to drag around the extra weight of the collar? Get to bump into stuff? Hoping that just being different gets you a market?
Not sure I'd want the collar there if it capsized.

[sharpii2]

The inflatable collar does add some top hamper, but nothing like a solid step of the same buoyancy.

It is helpful for three reasons:

1.) It acts as floatation, should the hull get swamped,
2.) In combination with the keel, it adds righting moment at more extreme degrees of heel (say, 45 to 90 deg.), and
3.) It allows the main hull to be somewhat slimmer for light air work.

Phil Bolger was a great fan of stepped body plans for sailboats. He designed at least one, which was to row well and sail well. The slim part of the hull had a wider, fuller section just above the LWL. When the boat was rowed, this fuller section would'n touch the water (at least in calm conditions, when it would most likely be rowed). When sail was set, the boat would heel, immersing the leeward fuller section, vastly increasing the righting moment.

When I look at what this inflatable collar does, I see a stepped body plan, which, unlike the squared off step, which Bolger and others tried to design, this rounded step will never create two separate immersed sections which would make it technically a multihull.

[rapscallion]

I think the best design for the intended purpose is the ECO 6. It has to be the fastest, roomiest boat of the bunch. But if he "No hull conacavity" rule applies here, the best bet is to lose the v birth, put the private head there, sitting head room behind the head and put the bunk under the cockpit. the design challenge there would be figuring out how to make that work. Design it to be an easy to build, single chine hull, that isnt horribly ugly, and design it to use a second hand rig, like the maples 24 trimaran.

[sean9c]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

The inflatable collar does add some top hamper, but nothing like a solid step of the same buoyancy.

It is helpful for three reasons:

1.) It acts as floatation, should the hull get swamped,
2.) In combination with the keel, it adds righting moment at more extreme degrees of heel (say, 45 to 90 deg.), and
3.) It allows the main hull to be somewhat slimmer for light air work.

Phil Bolger was a great fan of stepped body plans for sailboats. He designed at least one, which was to row well and sail well. The slim part of the hull had a wider, fuller section just above the LWL. When the boat was rowed, this fuller section would'n touch the water (at least in calm conditions, when it would most likely be rowed). When sail was set, the boat would heel, immersing the leeward fuller section, vastly increasing the righting moment.

When I look at what this inflatable collar does, I see a stepped body plan, which, unlike the squared off step, which Bolger and others tried to design, this rounded step will never create two separate immersed sections which would make it technically a multihull.

4) Also more stable upside down.
As much as I like Bolger designs he wasn't exactly known for his performance boats

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by rapscallion

I think the best design for the intended purpose is the ECO 6. It has to be the fastest, roomiest boat of the bunch. But if he "No hull conacavity" rule applies here, the best bet is to lose the v birth, put the private head there, sitting head room behind the head and put the bunk under the cockpit. the design challenge there would be figuring out how to make that work. Design it to be an easy to build, single chine hull, that isnt horribly ugly, and design it to use a second hand rig, like the maples 24 trimaran.

===================
I looked up the ECO 6 and it is as you say. Something like this may have potential: New 14'-16' Daysailer/Weekender Design: Raison d'etre


Rough Sketch inspired by David Raisons successful scow mini. This thing would have huge interior room for a relatively small boat:
click on image # 3--

[rapscallion]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

===================
I looked up the ECO 6 and it is as you say. Something like this may have potential: New 14'-16' Daysailer/Weekender Design: Raison d'etre


Rough Sketch inspired by David Raisons successful scow mini. This thing would have huge interior room for a relatively small boat:

I think the tunnel hull scow in this size range makes a lot of sense. The boat will be fast for it's size, and still has potential for a working interior. I think it would be a great boat. Also, a design in this size range could use a beach cat rig... which is a plus.

Something like a Pilgrim 590 with a beach cat rig would be a cost effective way to go, if a tunnel hull isn't allowed.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by souljour2000

This is an interesting thread..especially because of some of the design talent that is weighing in here...if I may I'd like to ask your opinions (anyone please feel free to weigh in here)..I'd like your opinions on the bilge keels so prevalent in the UK for many years...in general...and ...more to the crux of my question...whether they could be modified..especially with laminar mini-wings like PAR mentioned... halfway up in a safe-from-grounding region ...and maybe high-aspect enough to really take some weight (drag) off the hull...enough to perhaps offset the substantial wetted -surface this design would create and yet still yield a feasible twin keel design with its highly desirable drying -out capability and sometimes-mentioned tracking and resistance to leeward slippage when heavily heeled.....? Obviously alot of what-ifs and speculation and tons of drag issues here but that's part of the fun. I do value your thoughts..you may fire when ready....

======================
Somehow I missed this( post 13 ) earlier. Seems like a version of DSS might be perfect for a performance daysailer/weekender. The foil or foils could be retractable or they could be inserted into trunks and be removable for trailering and left fixed for sailing. They'd have their greatest benefit off the wind offering wetted surface reduction and a tremendous increase in RM. Something to consider in a very shallow draft, effective lifting foil.....

click on image:

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by rapscallion

I think the tunnel hull scow in this size range makes a lot of sense. The boat will be fast for it's size, and still has potential for a working interior. I think it would be a great boat. Also, a design in this size range could use a beach cat rig... which is a plus.

Something like a Pilgrim 590 with a beach cat rig would be a cost effective way to go, if a tunnel hull isn't allowed.

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Who's going to disallow a tunnel hulled scow? I still have reservations but it would be fun to test the idea. With any "roomy" small boat(cat or scow) the tendency to overload it would irresistable to many people-not sure how that would play out. I could see little boats like this getting a reputation for being slow when, in fact, they have a half ton of stuff scattered about.

[rapscallion]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

-----------------
Who's going to disallow a tunnel hulled scow? I still have reservations but it would be fun to test the idea. With any "roomy" small boat(cat or scow) the tendency to overload it would irresistable to many people-not sure how that would play out. I could see little boats like this getting a reputation for being slow when, in fact, they have a half ton of stuff scattered about.

I agree with you there. The Duo 440 looks interesting too. It would fit the bill proposed here as well. I know what my monohull ultimate weekender would look like...