16' Keel boat-high performance

[PaiMei]

Hey!

Do you have any more information or even pictures on this "shifting ballast car on rails" system?

Wer currently think about a 17feet dinghy with a kind of shiftinf ballast. We have build a 29feet keelboat with hydraulic canting keel and d not see any value of a canting keel for a boat smaller than 29feet. So sliding ballast would be an alternative.

Thanks for any info

PM

[bistros]

Originally Posted by PaiMei

Hey!

Do you have any more information or even pictures on this "shifting ballast car on rails" system?

Wer currently think about a 17feet dinghy with a kind of shiftinf ballast. We have build a 29feet keelboat with hydraulic canting keel and d not see any value of a canting keel for a boat smaller than 29feet. So sliding ballast would be an alternative.

Thanks for any info

PM

Sounds like you may be clients to purchase/license Doug Lord's design for his "Trapwing" movable ballast system. This innovative and amazing system can be incorporated to your choice of hull design to bring high performance capabilities that allow the human crew to relax in comfort on the boat centerline. Trapwings have been proposed for performance foilers, jumping foilers, high performance planing monohulls, limited mobility designs and many other applications, perhaps including military uses.

Doug has been building his prototype testbed platform for quite some time now - I imagine he's probably ready to show you some photographs of it sailing. He indicated he had a Unmanned Airborne Vehicle (UAV) control system designer that would develop the embedded control system on a single board computer at a very reasonable price.

The Trapwing moves blindingly fast on both the X and Y axis, and rotates around the Z axis for easy launching and dockage. Control is done via the embedded UAV technology and a manual joystick according to Doug. The Trapwing also provides buoyancy through integrated chambers, and can provide some lift when immersed to leeward while moving. The internal ballast weight is actually the laptop technology batteries which are on an internal sliding tray inside the Trapwing.

I thought this complex piece of technology may prove too much of a design challenge, but Doug has assured it will be light, cheap, fast and have lots of reserve battery power, buoyancy and righting moment capabilities.

Given Doug's long term vision and commitment to this project I'm sure he will revolutionize sailing and bring high performance to the masses.

PM Doug and I'm sure he will provide scans of his preliminary design drawings, CAD renderings, dimensions, a progress report on the build and perhaps photographs of everything working!

You should probably also have Doug provide some assistance on your hull design - he may be able to help you incorporate high performance foiling (and jumping) technology as well increasing the fun your clients can have with the boat. If you check out his gallery here you will quickly understand why he's our resident foiling expert.

Sail Fast,

--
Bill

It's a Revolution!

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by PaiMei

Hey!

Do you have any more information or even pictures on this "shifting ballast car on rails" system?

Wer currently think about a 17feet dinghy with a kind of shiftinf ballast. We have build a 29feet keelboat with hydraulic canting keel and d not see any value of a canting keel for a boat smaller than 29feet. So sliding ballast would be an alternative.

Thanks for any info

PM

============================
Check this thread out: Design Challenge: Trapwing-"on-deck" ballast-12'-22'
Pay particular attention to what Julian Bethwaite says!
I'm working on the concept now for a 22 footer(and smaller).
Here are some models that were used in developing a reliable movable ballast
system concept:

[PaiMei]

Thanks for this

But we actually think about a dinghy without keel (draft appr. 1feet/30cm plus retractable foils) and the ballast moving inside the hull from side to side.

Ever heard of something like this?

[zerogara]

What would there be to achieve with this?

Most dinghies have self adjusting balast from hanging from a wire outside the tramp area meanwhile they can control the spinaker/assymetr. and jib, and also while capsized they help out with righting the boat. Why would you want to add weight to a fast boat without expecting it to work for the ride?
I mean how many guys do you see volunteering to take their mother in law for a ride on a fast dinghy or skiff, unless there is a concrete block tied to her neck?

[Doug Lord]

I'm not sure how much gain there would be in having ballast moving inside the hull. There won't be enough room to get much leverage and none of the benefits from buoyancy the wing, in the other thread, offers. Without a fixed keel or the buoyancy of the wing the moving weight might be more trouble than its worth.
On-deck movable ballast in a sealed wing that can move as far or further(and faster) than a man on a trapeze could allow high performance sailing to some degree for people who wouldn't otherwise want the hassle or physical exertion of sailing such a boat. The safest version of a boat with a " Trapwing" type of system would also have a fixed keel that,along with the buoyancy in the wing, would prevent capsize and allow self-righting.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by zerogara

What would there be to achieve with this?

Most dinghies have self adjusting balast from hanging from a wire outside the tramp area meanwhile they can control the spinaker/assymetr. and jib, and also while capsized they help out with righting the boat. Why would you want to add weight to a fast boat without expecting it to work for the ride?
I mean how many guys do you see volunteering to take their mother in law for a ride on a fast dinghy or skiff, unless there is a concrete block tied to her neck?

You are being far too sensible to join a discussion with Doug. You have to understand, Doug's design ideas are directed towards solving his own personal challenges - it is doubtful anyone experienced would want to sail with him, so willing crew is out and it is also doubtful that he knows how to sail a modern high performance boat like a skiff, therefore asking for speed, mobility and experience is out as well.

Doug regularly argues with knowledgeable and experienced folks that actually sail high performance boats, so you can be sure your intelligent comments will be derided or ignored. Doug does appear to have had some experience with radio controlled toys in the past ten years, so a lot of his thinking is based on twiddling joysticks.

--
Bill