wiggle drive propulsion application

[Boston]

Hey Swash, I used your video as an example over on my 35' cat concept thread. I know you guys are kinda having it out over who's invented what, just trying to keep it honest and let you know whats up as it turns up. My next big plan is to build a scale model of my cat design and try different forms of propulsion out. steam, diesel, fins, wings, kites, and see where it leads. No clue but its an organic process so I'll just let it go where it leads.

Cheers and great idea guys.

Originally Posted by swashdrive

Are you trying to establish priority date here or something else ?
If that be the case, i have prior art dating back to 1993 on this type propulsion, yes its taken me 20 yrs !
The earliest date i can find on all ur posts at several forums is 2009 were you are using Swashplates or what you call a "wiggledrive", prior to that you were using a scotch-yoke to manipulate your fin !
I have been using swashplates in products near 20 yrs now, so this youtube link of my devise at the start of this thread has come off the back of 20yrs Experiance with swashplates not something copied from what you're doing !


THis is a very tricky devise to get right, theres probably 100 different ways to configure it and only about 2 will work with an efficiency gain, the other 98 you will be better off using a prop. But get it right and it'll beat any prop or jet hands down.

As can clearly be seen on my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtD09MTUsnE
the boat is planing with ease, it can have trouble getting on the plane ! but once planing the faster it goes the more grip the fins have the better the efficiency !
It is doing all this on a 400watt motor .

SudorracMechEng the principle of how it works is exactly how a penguin swims, but instead of the fins being opposite in the horizontal, they are opposite each other in the vertical and are timed exactly opposite each other cancelling the others lateral forces creating forward thrust with no oscillating feedback forces on the main body (hull).

Regards
Craig Wyeth
Swashdrive™

[kjell]

I have been experimenting with different Tail Drive on my model cat.

[Frosty]

A dolphin is 6 feet of muscle. top and bottom of the dolphin uses these to counteract the thrust of the fin up and down.

All you will get is the boat doing same, to every motion is an equall and opposite.

Never mind im sure it would be quite amuzing.

[Boston]

yup, My bet is on the two vertical fins acting opposite one another is the better arrangement, I'd also put money on what Swashbuckler said. 100 ways to do it and most of them all wrong. But if it could be done efficiently, then the blades are waaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than a prop any day. Hell you could probably knock one out by hand in an afternoon. As apposed to molding casting and balancing a 22" 3 blade prop.

Think of it as a test bed Frosty. Test beds are made to screw things up on ;-)

[swashdrive]

G'day guys

I have taken a couple of days to read stuff & think, actually been thinking hard on how to do this for a few yrs now!
I have had in the past, 2 patents on this mechanism already, so yeah the prior art makes any future patents very limiting, ( which have lapsed anyway). Nor do i have the funds or time to do that whole police patent thing only to have someone steal it and take all the glory anyway !
Kjell is absolutely correct in saying

Can You Patent Something That Already Exists?
What constitutes public dissemination of an idea is not always easy to discern. Sharing your idea with very large audiences freely, however, such as posting it on a website that can be accessed by anyone, will place the idea into the public domain and eliminate the possibility of obtaining a patent.

To be honest with myself, this Invention is way to significant to everyone to be kept secret in my cupboard for another 20 yrs !
If somehow we can get Mr Kjell to promise he will not run off and relabel or try and patent this invention his own, everyone be honourable to the cause and name the father invention a SWASHDRIVE,
this devise is clearly more advanced than KJELL wiggle devise, the video proves that !!!
Then i will strongly consider disclosing my discoveries of the Swashplate phenomenon. What i consider natures gift to mankind !

I'm not saying Kjell is wrong, infact his discoveries are down the same road i've travelled and given time he may workout what i already know !



Maybe this lil' cat setup may work !

Regards
Craig Wyeth
Swashdrive™

[Boston]

nice cat, you build that thing and you'll have all there attention

My plan is for a slower model. Basically a house cat. ;-)

[RayThackeray]

Mispelled is mispelt spelt wrong.

Originally Posted by Boston

mispelt

Never happens to me Frosty ;-)

[kjell]

Hi Craig.
I am glad that you are back. Your Cat looks beautiful. This cat, equipped with your Swashdrive can be very good. If I can help you to understand the Kjell-Effect, You are welcome. To get the maximum efficiency out of your drive it is important to under stand how the thrust is produced. I don’t thing it is necessary to fight between us. The Swashdrive and the Kjell-Wiggle Drive, works with the same mechanical background. Mine is less sophisticated than yours. I wish you good luck with your invention.
Regards
Kjell Dahlberg

[Boston]

I keep envisioning a total of 4 fins, 2 on each side, working both independently or in tandem to both drive and steer.

[SudorracMechEng]

Swashdrive, glad you are on board ! Looking forward to seeing the detail of how you achieved this.



Boston, and KJELL - Thanks for keeping your comments in a constructive manner! Looking forward to getting perfected.

[swashdrive]

Gday

The pic of the cat has a swashdrive unit already mounted on it in the pic, it Had good straight line speed but just wouldn't turn as well and lost speed to fast compared to the jetsprint hull.
I do have plans to build a bigger drive for it like you mentioned Boston... 4 fins with the 2nd set timed 90 deg advanced to the first. I'm thinking more grip and also make a more constant motor load !
Heah Kjell thanks for the offer old mate, but if i was you i would drop your claim for this "kjell effect"... isn't there already laws to cover this in aerodynamics, hydrodynamics and possibly even thermodynamics ! I think i already know how it produces thrust, i didn't just stumble upon it, but thanks for your offer.

Regards
Craig
Swashdrive™

[kjell]

Hi Craig.

If you don’t like to call it “Kjell-Effect” many like to call it “Fan-Effect” or “Tail-Effect” but all is the same. This “Effect” doesn’t exist in aeroplanes, so normal aerodynamics has no formulas to explain it. Insects, Bats, birds and all swimmers are taking advance if they are using this “effect” the right way. I would like to know, how do you think the fins are converted the flapping movement into thrust.
Your “SwashDrive” looks very impressive. I can se that you have been many hours to build it.
Kjell

[Boston]

You guys are achieving a similar motion, using different mechanics, I suspect one being fairly smooth and the other producing tons of vibration.

a swashplate is not flat. its got a serpentine to it, and used roller bearings, most likely far more efficient then a flat plate with a acentric axle which in turn moves through a large bearing of some kind. Seems like it would have larger moving pieces, although they might act like a flywheel and smooth it out some.

Swashbuckler provided some info, but not quite enough to figure out how much thrust his system provided pr/watt. It would be interesting to set both systems up in a static thrust situation and see which one is the more efficient. Just off the top of my head I'd guess Swashbuckler but there's just no telling from whats provided so far.

I was just reading up on the efficiency of drive systems, .65 for shaft systems .55 for stern and jet drives. Would love to know how that compares to these things.

I'm not sure Agent K has a clear grip on what a swashplate looks like. But by refering to an acentric axle as a "wiggle" plate might be kinda confusing people.

this flicker shows a axial vectored engine using a swashplate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClky1QX0Eg

and this thing uses a acentric axle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfR8H...eature=related

[swashdrive]

Originally Posted by Boston

I was just reading up on the efficiency of drive systems, .65 for shaft systems .55 for stern and jet drives. Would love to know how that compares to these things.

I tooled a 1/4 scale mixed flow jet for an RC Jetsprint
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EZ1Nb5J-hY

I sold a few to Wolfston marine, which does testing with all the flow tanks etc in the University of Southhampton, England.
I received and efficiency report back stating the following ;
At best a prop is 0.28% and all jets they've tested unto 0.35% efficiency
My scale jet they had calculate 0.36 the best so far, so i suppose in this scale efficieny can be quite good. But 0.65 i have never herd of a prop being that efficient ! maybe wrong but that is what i have been led to believe !
You may have noticed i removed my claim on efficiency % on the youtube vid, i don't really want to spend all my time little as it may be defending this claim, i can wait for others to replicate this devise and do there own calc's and prove or disprove its efficiency !

I'm not sure Agent K has a clear grip on what a swashplate looks like. But by refering to an acentric axle as a "wiggle" plate might be kinda confusing people.

this flicker shows a axial vectored engine using a swashplate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClky1QX0Eg

I'm sorry old mate, that also is not a swashplate, its a cam plate with 2 roller followers, there is more than 1 stroke per the revolution of the main shaft, sure it may be able to mimic the constant velocity of the swashplate, but i hate to think what would happen if one follower broke !


regards
Craig
Swashdrive™

[swashdrive]

removed


regards
Craig
Swashdrive™