these turbine alternaters are easy to make

[Boston]

no worries mate
we're all in it for a good time anyway
and no
nothing was as bad as the global warming thread
which I am taking a vacation from by the way
I hate agnotism ( Agnotology )
just think steam power
and all will be well

but I am trying to keep the thread on track aside from the occasional pleasant distraction so dont worry at all about bringing in the finer details of goofing off

the idea is to find the most economical alternative energy source to operate this boat and its subsystems on while still having a practical machine that can be run with a minimum of technical skill or special knowledge



looks like a pellet boiler and a steam engine with vawt generators is the trick
with I conventional genset as a back up converted to alcohol posibly running a torquido 17 hp auxiliary

would be so cool to own a big steam launch



having analyzed the issues of fuel economy and operating details surrounding steam engines, they are not insurmountable
with fuel economy and engine and drive train cost being actually less than conventional
also fuel is carbon neutral and you can actually make your own with machinery readily available cheep cheep cheep

even the vawt gensets are cheep to DYI

steam recovery means you recycle some of the heat and the efficiency of the boilers can be as high as 88% to 92% to start with let alone recycled preheated water

[Boston]

so I supose the next best question is
what kind of sea state could a steam system handle



turns out 6 tons a square meter is about the force a 12 meter wave is capable of
soooo can I build this hull to withstand that
probably not but Ill see what I come up with

but first Ill go for an easy one
can the boiler system be designed to not spill its fire tray if capsized for a short period of time
and shut down automatically if for a long period of time
obviously it can
the shut off system can be a simple automated kill switch that in conjunction with a spill proof fire tray
then its only mater of a pressure relief valve slaved to the same kill switch

its the capsized for a short period of time and still comes up running that is going to be the tricky part
shuffling the fire tray is likely to adversely effect the coal bed and could put out the fire
and the feeder is gravity based

any ideas

oh speaking of dumb ideas I thought for about a split second today what a great idea it would be to steam alcohol since its a closed system anyway why not use a fluid that boils at a lower temperature
light bulb came on eventually
explosion

oh and one ton of pellet fuel takes up 64 cu ft
or 4x4x4
I can fit 7 tons in the engine room alone and still comfortably walk around the mechanical for a typical range of 808 miles

[masalai]

Arrrummmm quiet...... ? (I was thinking here on sea state) and glass breakage and so on????

[Boston]

lazy day
I did get the keel proportions down though
and Ive already got the lines rescaled to 13' beam and 57' length
and the stations done
next to loft the keel mold
and start figuring out how much Ild have to beef it up to handle a decent sized wave

as for the roll resistance of the pellet boiler Im thinking a self lighting system would take care of relighting the boiler should things go wrong
along with the live pressure control valve being properly set
also the condenser coils might be exposed from there coolant for some period of time so a pressure shut off switch on the return steam would be a must
the pellets are held in closed hoppers so there would be a slight interruption in the feed screw
and the boiler water pump would probably get interrupted so the pump would need to be of the self prime type
hmmmmm
what am I missing
( hopefully the explosion )

doesnt look real good for coming up running should the boiler get rolled

[Boston]

one thing that did come up in the thread that was interesting and deserved a mention is gyroscopes

they store energy dam nicely
they tend to be good at stabilizing things
case in point camera lenses

they are heavy so they could be used as ballast
and they resist axial reorientation

how about a gyroscopicly stabilized and powered wave piercing hull form
what would it take to make it work

these guys got the hull form down
but my question is
would it detract from the forward energy of the boat to gyroscopic resist the boats normal dynamic equilibrium

IE
there is a reason race cars have stiff suspension
energy spent in the suspension system is directly subtracted from the forward energy of the vehicle

so would a gyroscopic stabilizing system in this boat result in its going slower
or maybe just result in the loss of rpm in the gyroscope

I think it might and thats why no one is gyroscopicly stabilizing boats



by the way
that boat was dam noisy and probably smelled like french fries
and the bio diesel was a dam pain in the ass to come up with as well
pretty sure they had a supply shipped to each fueling station rather than try to buy it at destination
unlike the pellets that can be easily made from any dried grass or wood chips with a simple small and stowable device

[Boston]

so in the end it looks like a simple steam engine suggested by Red was the way to go with a pair of boilers being the most efficient way to provide steam as only one need be burning during standard operation ( I think )

the boilers can be fired with wood pellets at a cost nearly half of what it would cost per btu in diesel fuel

the fuel can be made with a simple stowable device that could be run on electric from the wind turbines

the Vawt generators can augment the steam gensets
with a back up genset converted to fuel alcohol for times when my steam gives up on me
like if I got rolled or something

and a bank of say three gorilla batteries at 1150 amps each
all powering a small auxiliary 17 hp torquedo or pair of torquido's one front one back to help dock the monster
and also powering the pellet mill when I was producing

the pellet mill spits out about 300 to 350 KG pr hour at 22 hp and is fully capable of processing anything from saw dust to wood chips or straw hay
is all kinds of compact and can be run on any pto



best folks
its been fun working it all out with you all
thanks
B

[masalai]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Boston again." - - All too easy, I hope everyone else enjoyed it all as much as I did.... Don't stop now - follow through...

[rasorinc]

Boston, if you have not purchased your white oak lumber yet I would like to make a suggestion on which wood to use for frames. The wood Black Locust
is the strongest hard wood in North America and will not rot no matter what..................Fence post in rainy climates last almost forever without any treatment. have a couple of links I can provide you for detailed info on the wood and a supplier in the state of Washington who has clear, vertical, grain. I alwas try to put a piece or two in each boat so I can tell the owner

"the keel or the skeg is Black Locus" makes for intresting conversations. It is far stronger than W. Oak but is heavier and holds fasteners well and likes epoxy. Great for frames, keels, even stringers and a wood rudder. Skegs also.
let me know if you want additional links and info. Stan you an shrink your demensions to what less than what oak requires
here are2 links anyway http://www.connectedlines.com/wood/wood13.htm back with another http://www.specialtywoods.net/lumber.html

[Boston]

sure send em along

interesting
I just read up on the stuff and although its only a cursory glance the stuff is exactly as you say
low shrinkage and highly rot resistant also dam heavy
if it continues to pass muster and is as rot resistant as you say it might make a great keel as its shock resistance is
as you mentioned superior to white oak

I have about a thousand feet of 8/4 white oak laying in the shop now but I need a lot more

hmmmmm
I dont know **** about Black locust
never worked with the stuff
will have to get some and play with it some

whats it cost
I can get all the white oak I want starting at $2 a foot and going down from there depends on how much I buy

thanks for the idea
B

[rasorinc]

the other link I sent he says 5.00 a BF for clear. In todays market depending on how much your looking for I'll bet it could be had for $3.50 B F. Keels, skegs even rudders and the rot factor is zero W/O epoxy. Slam a piece on a log and your arm will be the broken piece. Better shock resistance than hickory but the great value is zero rot. The stem with a 2x8 of BL would not even have to have plywood sides. It is harder than Hell---all pre-drill. Most people have never heard of the stuff that's why I always put a piece in--makes for good conversation and they usually thank me and are proud to have some on their boat. rudders out of it are far cheaper than bronze.

[Boston]

well you got me on the never used it before
I am humbled having thought I knew wood pretty well

been reading about the stuff since I got your post and it seems to be the real deal
none of my suppliers carry it although I have one that will cut me anything
( pays to always have been a good customer )
I keep reading its not commercially available in the us because of some borer that basically riddles the stuff with holes

if it holds epoxy well and is really all that rot resistant I could be convinced to build the keel out of it as I really want to try my hand at laminating up a keel
in white oak Ild have to build it in timbers but it would be stronger all the way round to have a laminated keel
I was going to forgo glue as much as possible and go traditional all the way

way to throw a wrench into the works mate
now I got to rethink a few things

deal is if I make the keel to strong I could just be adding stress to the stringers and ribs in the event of an impact
like a chunk of ice or worse
so there is some consideration of using similar wood throughout the frame

oh
I read that about the guy with the stuff for 5.50
but I gotta go
got a show to go to
best
B

[rasorinc]

Please do not try to avoid epoxy adhesive. You're rejecting the 21st century.
tell the dentist you want to try it the old fashion way, do not build your boat that way. Why trust fate????????????????????????????????????????????

[Boston]

well I've not ever used it in the past
course that past was a long time in the past and my Grand Dad was about as old school as it gets
but the guy did know how to build a boat no doubt about that
this boat lends itself to traditional construction very well with only a few modifications to bring it up to snuff ( as old Roby would have said )
so I see little need for epoxy in the vessels construction

should I elect to laminate the keel I would be using it, but other than that its use isnt really necessary near as I can see

[masalai]

Oh Boston please join us in the 21st century? I am so confident that epoxy is the best assistant imaginable that I am using it with balsa cored panels and covered with various weights of glass - makes a light strong capsule for us that has a very good survivability capacity... Only use stuff that works with epoxy - NOT kevlar cloth or other plastics....

[Boston]

Im going for interlocking jointery with tree nails and MAYBE glue
its not all that necessary
I think Ill just stay in tonight and work on it
am designing the jointery now along with reworking these lines plans I have for an old Elco once I get the keel lofted Ill begin working on the model
Im not going to do the model as an exact replica (I dont need the wood working practice) but instead use it to get the proportions right
but its the type of joint I select for each location that determines the necessity of glue or not Ill probably glue the joints and not the pins is what its looking like so far.

Ill go with bridled hook scarfs in the keel and keelson timbers and the stringers also oh and in the frames were they pass cleanly over the keel assembly I might splay the frames as they pass the keel area as well. The deck beams will be dovetailed into the shelves and the carlins into the beams. I might use a half blind tenon in the frames to shelf connection which will allow me to slip each frame into the shelf as I go and then Ill be able to slide the deck beams onto the dovetail in the shelf and have it then slip over the half blind on the end of the frame, a few pins later and it would never fall apart. Tricky part will be getting the angle of the cuts to match the curvature of the pieces. although Im still in the early parts of the design faze and things are bound to change.

Ill post the joinery when I get it all figured out and my detail drawings done
B