New propulsion sytems for ships

[sharpii2]

I Seems that there are three types of people in this world.

Ostritches, Chicken Littles, and Red Hens.

The ostritches bury their head in the sand and hope the problem will go away. Or at least find another victim and pass them by. They are the ones who used to say "Have faith in God." Now they say "Have faith in 'free markets'."

The Chicken Littles think that the problem is always unsolvable. Their refrain is and has has always been: "We're all doomed!"

And the Red Hens always try to face the issues honestly and look for real solutions, not fantasies that may or may not come true on their own.

It's the Red Hens that make useful things happen in this world. And they are everywhere (as are the Ostritches an Chicken Littles). You find them in business, you find them in citizen groups, and you even find them in that Darth Vader of institutions, The Government.

As for myself, I used to be an Ostritch. Now I'm a Chicken Little. And I hope some day to be a Red Hen.

Anyone care to join me on that quest?

Bob

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by tom kane

diogenemarine.com relates to a World record attempt to be the fastest boat to circumnavigate the globe.And using bidiesel.In a recent news bulletin a New Zealand business man has set up a pilot plant to demonstrate burning coal with Zero emissions,using a form of Carbon Di Oxide filter.He has invited sceptics to see it in operation,there are many who say that more energy would be used running the system than any useful output.

Not if he 'sequesters' (stores) the Co2. The main product he's after is heat. With enough heat you can do useful work (such as make electricity, seperate hydrogen from water, or even drive a ship). The Co and Co2 must then be bottled or contained some how. Some are talking about pumping it into old wells. The ones that used to produce natural gas... Don't laugh. It is atleast theoreticly feasable and I won't be surpised if it becomes part of a vast smorgesborg of 'little' energy sources that replace the three biggies: open burning of coal, petrolium, and natural gas.

Bob

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

...Some are talking about pumping it (CO2) into old wells...
Bob

Not only talking. Have a look at:
http://carbonsequestration.us/News&P...ject-Title.htm

[gonzo]

Fast Fred and Guillermo:
Hitler and Stalin both tried to clean the world with such methods. It created war, which in turn created a healthy economy with an increase of population and energy use. History shows it doesn't work.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by cyclops

Ok. We are running out of oil. So we start making Bio-fuel as a substitue. Great. What use to be returned back into the food chain ,will now be made into fuel to be burned into nothing. Aren't we going to run out of animals bones and vegetable waste and starve to death? It seems each improvement is worse at the end, then the problem it solved.

Yes I believe we are at the edge of a big chrisis. China and Asian countries' inevitably wild industrial development with cheap labor, will bring huge unbalances (rise of the price of fuel, earlier finish of natural resources, savage pollution, global warming, unemployment in the more developed countries). If you add that to the unbalances created by all that hate germinated in the middle west, fuelded by a complete inapt and unrealistic approach by the western world, that managed to turn that hate against themselves, I fear that we will have a harsh near future till a new equilibrium ( social, economic and ecological), a sustentable one will be reached.
I believe unemployment will rise sharply and that riot situations like the ones lived in France will be common.
I hope to be wrong...

[gonzo]

We are on a time of radical changes. I think it is comparable to the 19th Century's Industrial Revolution, or the opening of America to European conquest. Not everyone will adapt. Fuel and other sources of energy are also sources of power. However, that is nothing new. It may have been horses in the middle ages, or ships in the 1700's. There may be technologies though, that make possible to create energy economically in small quantities. This will change the world, like the internet did. I mean that the ability to control power sources is spread out more and accessible to a larger group.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by gonzo

...It may have been horses in the middle ages, or ships in the 1700's...

Another theory:
May western civilization main power have followed the sun through centuries, with the extinguishing of woods? (While shipbuilding was based in wood, of course)
Let's see: First Phenicians, then Greek, then Rome, then Spain and Portugal, then the UK, then the USA..?

GONZO:
I don't see Hitler nor Stalin like having used the "**** theory" to exterminate people. They had some other cruel methods...

VEGA:
Unluckily I quite agree with you.


P.S.:
Not for this thread, but interesting and clarifying
Antigravity
Phantom Works seems to have forgotten about it.

[gonzo]

I didn't mean they use the same theory. Rather, that social upheavals of this type usually encourage growth.

[wet-foot]

and the next country to rule the world is? Mr. Bush should be very proud of himself proving that anyone truly can be president.

[Raggi_Thor]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Not only talking. Have a look at:
http://carbonsequestration.us/News&P...ject-Title.htm

This will soon be done with all CO2 from natural gas power plants in Norway I think. Then we can get even more gas and oil out of the wells and produce even more CO2 :-)

Electrical propulsion is used on some ferries here, the charge their batteries from renewable electricity (water falls turned into pipes an turbines) while we import electricity based on nuclear and coal heated power plants...

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by wet-foot

and the next country to rule the world is?....

China?


ALL:
More for the thread's original intention:
http://www.ship-technology.com/contr...ropulsion/abb/
http://www.ch2bc.org/index16.htm
http://www.voithturbo.de/media/vhos_vcr_e.pdf
http://www.oilendgame.com/pdfs/TechAnnx/TechAnnx11.pdf

[Vega]

I am puzzled. Why is there so little information on the net about the Jirnov Vortex Engine?

It looks awesome, not to speak that it is the one that has more immediate advantages for small boats (yachts).

Is it possible that the engine is so good that US Navy is making a secret of its development?

Look at this data:

"The JVT runs at only 1,800 to 3,600 RPMs while delivering the same amount of energy as the conventional counterparts that spin many times faster than that. ....

GVE Inc claims the JVT is 58 percent to 70 percent fuel-efficient, depending on air temperature from the combustion chamber. In comparison, coal or steam combustion runs around 30 percent, gas turbines at 35 percent, and 20 percent for auto engines, while fuel cells run at around 50 percent fuel-efficiency, converting the fuel into energy.

In 2003, the Department of Naval Research awarded GVE Inc $100,000 to build a 25-kW prototype. Pleased by the results, the Office of Naval Research then provided General Vortex with a million-dollar grant to build a scaled up 125-kW prototype. When completed, it will undergo extensive tests at a Navy facility. If that performs along the lines of the first prototype, General Vortex could receive a purchase order and a $3 million grant from the Navy to establish a production facility.

The deadline for completion of the 125-kW prototype is March 2006. Presently, two of the four components have been built and are being tested. The heat exchanger and the expander have been built, and are testing out "very good according to design specifications," said Borissov. They are using parts from the earlier prototype to run the tests on the new components.

Representatives of GVE Inc. say the vortex turbine could one day replace most of the internal combustion engines and gas turbines now extant in the power industry.

......Utilized with fuel cells, the JVT will allow for the hybrid fuel cell industry to explode."

http://pesn.com/2005/04/25/6900086_J...ortex_Turbine/

[Raggi_Thor]

Guillermo, I think some kind of sails is the only answer to your original question. Out on the sea you have (almost) always some wind.

[FAST FRED]

The only time I found a really "new" concept in diesel engines it became Classified as a backup engine for cruise missels. It had very good power to fuel use.

The current engine MFG are not very interested in really NEW tech as so many millions of factory and inventory will become obselete.

A CEO is a simple manager of what exists , not a visonary that might endanger the corp.

The MYTH of "were out of oil" exists ,
as now what was once common knowledge of new finds and fields among the oil folks , is now closely held by the various governments the oil fields are located in.

Why lower the price , if you know there is 500-1000 years of oil in the ground?

Soon enough we will be using Fusion , rather than Fission to generate electric and run our planet, and oil will mostly be for aircraft and lubrication.

And of course its BEST use,, to make resin to create boats from!!

FAST FRED

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

The only time I found a really "new" concept in diesel engines it became Classified as a backup engine for cruise missels. It had very good power to fuel use.

Was that Williams International (in Michigan)?

About five years ago they had an engine ready for the Eclipse 500 business jet, but something about the deal fell through. Could there be a connection to this "Classified" stauts you speak of?