New propulsion sytems for ships

[Rick Willoughby]

Originally Posted by sigurd

I thought most of that was brush noise but then I read your description again. Care to speculate where it comes from? Looks compact.

The controller produces a trapezoidal waveform. The noise is the magnetic cogging related to the field switching.

You can get sinusoidal controllers but they are not quite as efficient. I understand they are quieter though.

The noise is different to a single cylinder diesel of course. More like music.

Rick W

[Rick Willoughby]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Hello Rick,
......

Put me on your mailing list. I'm on sabbatical from the boating subjects for awhile

Brian
My efforts in the realm of solar-wind electric boats is quite sporadic at present. I am really only fiddling with components that go together to make it all work.

I have other things that will take my attention till the end of this year so not too much happening. Doubt that it will be of much interest to you for the immediate future.

Rick W

[sigurd]

Thump..thump...thump...
68% thermal efficiency bass drum motor (deisel)

[sigurd]

Fshht... Fsshht... Fshht...
snares engine (steam Power!)

[sigurd]

Baooooouumm....

Bassline Burner

[harlemriverman]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.sunboat.com/

[kistinie]

Following post 547, ending like this about generating electricity with a tiny toy (40x31', 3 tons trimaran....)

Originally Posted by apex1

You make silly statements again, as usual. Just one point:
A boat of 100 tonnes displ. dragging a prop at 6kn might produce 50 times the energy your tiny toy could do. Still not economically but possible.

Thats physics............................

Bird names !!!
Great idea !
What is the next level ?
Giving me a yellow star ?
Cooool ! i will be a Marshall like Steeve Mc Queen ?

Mmmmm...Keep cool, it's just a boat discussion


So it seems we had not the same physic teacher...


OK ! Lets talk of facts.

AQUAGEN 6 (very poor 90mm towed propeller), i have on my Trimaran as a safety device gives me :

16 amps /14V at 12 Knts with 60 Lbs drag
10 amps /14V at 10 Knts with 40 Lbs drag
2 amps /14V at 5 Knts with 8 Lbs drag
1 amps /14V at 4 Knts with 4 Lbs drag

With 60 Lbs drag on the 3 tons of vessel, what is my speed reduction ?
Under 1 Knts, closer to 1/2 ! Is this acceptable ?

What is wrong with what i said about energy at 12 Knts 4 time higher than 6 knts ?
basic formula for energy is 0.5 X weight x Speed²
For a fast light boat, i agree, seems pessimistic, as from 5 to 10 Knts, ratio is not 4X, but 5X !!!


So energy of 3 tons trimaran sailing 12 Knts will be the same than a 5x3 tons = 15 tons boat sailing 6 knts
So a 100 tons boat 6 Knts gives 6.6 times the energy of my 3 tons trimaran sailing 12 Knts

How did you calculate 50 ?
Please explain me this miracle !

How many HP do you need for the same energy with IC engine on your 100 tons yacht, 500 ? More ?

For the same energy
Increasing mass is a far less efficient choice than raising speed with low weight
Do like smart sailors, ride a toy !
Trimaran toy, catamaran toy, Prao toy, sex toy...Will make you feel happier ...than heavy slow frigid boats !



As you do not feel comfortable with numbers, here are some vid, to show you how powerful is a light multihull

With a 20 feet trimaran (50% discount toy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES3VR...e=channel_page

With 50 feet (African size toy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLMOdhce-Pk


For readers coming here directly
A small Sum up

electric propulsion is the close next future of auxiliary sail boat propulsion
To solution all problems at once a CPP is almost compulsory, and 100% compulsory in case of very fast racer
To keep the all system simple a pod is the best solution

Remains ONE big problem...the product doesn't exist !

[Boston]

been looking a lot at wind power and vawt style generators when I stumbled onto this flicker

[kistinie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRYwr...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2GLr...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7F_j...eature=related


wind :1
ice engine : 3

So this is scientifically demonstrated, ICE is more dangerous than windmill


More seriously, flying piston, blades or ...cylinder head can happen, and all this underline the fact that high speed devices are high energy so high potential danger
Wear an helmet !

[brian eiland]

'The rise in popularity in hybrid cars has inspired ICOMIA to invest in a marine equivalent.'

Thanks to the rise in hybrid road vehicles, International Council of Marine Industry Associations (ICOMIA) is dedicating resources to adapting the same technologies to boating applications.

But since there are no fully optimised systems in the marketplace, technical writer Nigel Calder teamed up with marine engineer and ICOMIA research adviser Ken Wittamore and recruited a powerful team of experts to perfect marine hybrid propulsion systems.

With ICOMIA’s support, the pair have been provisionally offered European Union’s (EU) Hybrid Marine (HYMAR) project; a €2.2m grant from the Framework 7 research budget.

The HYMAR team includes EnerSys, manufacturers of the Odyssey TPPL battery, for expertise on energy packs; Victron Energy for power electronics and software development; Dave Tether of E-Motion Special Projects for extensive experience in marine hybrid system implementation; Bosch Engineering GmbH to help perfect the central system controller; Steyr Motors, for cutting-edge diesel engine and electric machine technology; Bruntons Propellers and INSEAN, an Italian research institute, for a world-class propeller development capability; and Malo Yachts for the test boat and related services. Steyr Motors is also the builder of a parallel hybrid that has won several awards.

The HYMAR project will use the NMEA 2000 industry standard communications protocol, together with highly reliable automotive controllers, to form the backbone of the new, open system. This will ensure that hybrid systems can be built from any suitable equipment that uses NMEA 2000, expanding the market and bringing the benefits of hybrid technology to the widest possible number of users.

Critical control logic and software for the controller will be developed collaboratively and will be the single most important outcome of the project. Additional collaborative arrangements will result in ancillary components, such as cost-effective high-powered distribution panels with the necessary CE and other certifications.

HYMAR will lead the process for writing a new ISO and ABYC standard for electric propulsion systems and high voltage DC marine electrics, which will ensure that the wider marine industry will benefit from this research project.
‘We started fairly modestly but the prospect of significant EU funding has enabled us to attract the very best companies in the market,’ said Mr Wittamore. ‘Our consortium includes world class players with incredible engineering skills and experience. The EU funding is leveraging resources beyond our most optimistic expectations.’

‘I am becoming increasingly confident that in two to three years time we will have the technology for a broad array of hybrid systems and associated peripheral devices suitable for power, sail and small commercial boats from 30ft to 100ft,’ said Mr Calder. ‘These systems will go well beyond anything currently available in terms of sophistication, efficiency, cost-effectiveness, and ease of use.’


Here is another reference website on the subject:
http://www.electricmarinepropulsion...._EU-HYMAR.html

[kistinie]

Great news !
Thanks for this

Coming back to noise

Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby

....

The noise is different to a single cylinder diesel of course. More like music.

Rick W

Diesel is less noisy, and more "musical" (if it can ?) with a gas (butane, propane, hydrogen, acetylene, methane, whatever...) added to air for combustion.
So in an hybrid mind, to go on a soft conversion of the ICE industry, this is an easy refit solution for existing park of diesel engine to keep in mind. Not universal answer but pertinent for many cases as bio gas can be produced in hundred of manners.

Sorry for this ICE break in such an electric moment, but i'm afraid we will have to pay attention to the ICE world if we do not want the ICE world to take care of us.
Underestimating this psychological and economical opposition is a wrong strategy.
H² and bio gaz will give a new interest to ICE, this should be use as a gateway to new tech.

[brian eiland]

EOSEAS, greenship concept born from the ECORIZON program
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkFFLMTkNks

...this is a little bit larger tri-hull than anticipated for the New-Age Trawler/Motorsailer concept

[kistinie]

Congratulations to all the team, all my wishes of success. I hope we will see this ship soon on the sea.
Who is the inventor of this "air carpet" ?
I found this
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0293538.html
The device is very far from a simple thing...

[Guillermo]

Interesting they do not suggest RIM propellers.
I'm also wondering why do they suggest marconi style rigs, instead of the dynarig or whatever other more efficient in open courses. That ship is not going to race around the cans....